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MAX Verstappen has Car Number 1 in F1 2022.


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1 hour ago, Meza994 said:

I wouldnt be so fast about that debate.. Merc are protesting and will likely get the result from lap 57 taken as the end result because Wolff is the bigger Karen this season lol Hamilton will be champion 2021 by the time 2022 gets going

If the FIA does that; I'm likely done with F1.  They'll lose all credibility in my books.  I'm not a Lewis or Max fan but I'm a fan of RACING.  I watched a season worth of great racing between these two.  I do not under any circumstance want to see a race end under a safety car; especially one that is going to decide a championship.  I get it; yellow flags are part of racing.  We all know that, but for the sake of sporting and competition you shouldn't end a race and championship like that.  Especially when you blatantly disregarding your rules already on lap 1 when Hamilton clearly went off track and clearly gained an advantage.  That was a racing move/pass that rather than backing out Hamilton chose to go off track, and how you can say he didn't gain an advantage when they went into the corner with Max ahead, yet come out of the corner with lewis about a second ahead. 

Either way though; they made a decision to let 5 lapped cars through, and not the other few.  Who cares?  They always let them through under a safety car.  The only difference here is they didn't have the extra lap under the safety car.  Generally that is done so the lapped cars have sufficient time to get to the back of the pack and out of the way.  At this point though it doesnt matter, they allowed them through early enough to have a large enough gap between them and the leaders.  The remaining lapped cars at the back of the pack are already at the back.  Their involvement in the last lap is irrlevant in the grand scheme of things so IMO the right choice is to let them finish under green, racing conditions.  this is RACING afterall; not a parade.

Mercedes is upset; I get that.  Their decision not to pit was based on their assumption the race would not go back under green.  They didn't want to give up the track position knowing if they pitted, Max wouldn't.   Red Bull had nothing to lose and gambled chosing to pit.  Ultimately they got the track cleared in time and we went back racing for a lap.  The lapped cars were hurried through so we could have a finish to a race and to a championship under actual RACING conditions.  Mercedes should have been prepared for the fact they may go back racing, and they should have known Red Bull would do the opposite of them. 

Imagine if this way... if Merc pits Hamilton, Max stays out for the position and to get the lead.  You now have 5 lapped cars in the way between Hamilton and Max and the same decision is made to pass them through; it's still the right decision IMO and we likely have the opposite outcome since Hamilton had a set of softs left anyways.  I want a RACE, not a parade to the finish to dictate a remarkable season.  Also; why would anyone want to see the 5 lapped cars stuck between the driver in 1st, and the driver in 2nd? Their race is OVER already with one lap to go and being a lap down; so who cares?  The only logical explanation I can see for anyone wanting that is so that their favorite driver in this race walks away with a win under the SC, or walks away with an easy win given the 5 lapped cars in the way.  Either way though if they were going back green; the lapped cars were getting through.  The process was rushed; big deal.  It's still the normal process; just condensed so the sport to have a RACING finish.  The only problem here is that one team made a strategy call that worked, one didn't and the only other problem here is the fans on either side bickering about it now.

Maybe it's just me because I'm not a diehard supporter of either driver and I'm looking at this from the racing standpoint but I think the right decision was made today, and if F1/FIA wants to overturn a race and championship this far after the completion because they can't eliminate the team politics from their sport, then it's likely not a sport I want to invest my time and energy into.

On that note; F1 needs to do 4 things this offseason IMO:

1. Find a way to eliminate SC/VSC finishes.  Nobody want to see a race end like that; especially one that decides a championship.

2. Clarify your rules around overtaking and penalties.  It's ridiculously inconsistent right now.

3. Prevent changing of tyres and repairing cars under red flag conditions.

4. Stop teams from being able to lobby directly to the race directors and stewards.  They have the authority to make the rules enforcement decisions and should be able to do so in a completely unbiased manner without pressure from the team principals.  All the whining and crying by Horner and Wolff this season was becoming enough as it is to make me not want to bother watching.

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1 hour ago, petro1319 said:

Either way though; they made a decision to let 5 lapped cars through, and not the other few.  Who cares?

The fact is that the stewards did not follow their own rules. Once they let the lapped cars go, the safety car has to stay out for one more lap. Therefore the safety car should have stayed out for the last lap = no more racing. Regardless of who i wanted to win the stewards have made a joke of the sport.

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20 minutes ago, Badmayhem said:

Did ANYBODY think it wasn't going to be a steward decision that decided the Championship?

There should be a 3 laps racing rule after SC finish. This would change fuel strategies for ALL races as an added bonus jmo. 

Not really a good idea. Well in theory it is but the problem is teams will not have 3 extra lap of fule on board because that costs quite a bit. A lot of drivers would just run out of fuel in those laps or get DSQd because no fuel is left for the FIA to analyse

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Not gonna lie, I am kinda happy to see the rise of a new World Champion, but, and here is the HUGE BUT, do you think, after the aggressive driving that Verstappen pulled in:

  1. Monza, knocking himself and Hamilton out of the race with an offensive passing attempt into the first chicane, in which the crash would've KILLED (!!!) Lewis if it wasn't for the halo...
  2. Jeddah, in which he brake-checked Lewis, cut the corners several times and drove very offensive overall, I still don't get why he didn't get black flagged for all this offensive driving...
  3. Yas Marina, after all the things he apparently should've done (I didn't see the race, sorry) including overtakes during the Safety Car Phase...

I didn't see all the races, but do you seriously think that an offensive driver like Max Verstappen deserves the Driver World Championship in any way? Honestly, if I was Masi, I would've disqualified Verstappen on the spot for all these incidents caused in Jeddah, and he would deserve a 5 second penalty for the (apparent) overtakes in Yas Marina.

I'm not taking sides here, I'm just saying what I feel, and honestly, to see that Lewis Hamilton lost the fight makes me lose hope about the record for the most Championship titles to EVER be broken... Which hasn't been the case in 17 years now. And if Hamilton retires before taking his 8th championship, it probably never will... 😢 But, if this is what F1 has become, a pure demolition derby and penalty lottery, well, I can understand what Verstappen meant with 'They're doing a great job at killing racing'.

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7 hours ago, Meza994 said:

Not really a good idea. Well in theory it is but the problem is teams will not have 3 extra lap of fule on board because that costs quite a bit. A lot of drivers would just run out of fuel in those laps or get DSQd because no fuel is left for the FIA to analyse

Yep. 

What Masi should have done if FIA wanted to decide the championship by racing AND wanted to keep it fair for everyone:

Red flag the race immediately after Latifi binned it.

Clear the track, everyone can change their tires for free.

Then 3-5 laps of racing to end the race. 

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12 hours ago, Meza994 said:

I wouldnt be so fast about that debate.. Merc are protesting and will likely get the result from lap 57 taken as the end result because Wolff is the bigger Karen this season lol Hamilton will be champion 2021 by the time 2022 gets going

Zero chance of that happening. They will drag it out to early next year but in the end Verstappen will stay champion, Masi will get replaced and FIA will publicly apologize to Mercedes. That's it.

 

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13 hours ago, Meza994 said:

I wouldnt be so fast about that debate.. Merc are protesting and will likely get the result from lap 57 taken as the end result because Wolff is the bigger Karen this season lol Hamilton will be champion 2021 by the time 2022 gets going

As soon as I saw this, I knew this was going to go waaayyy off-topic of Max's driver number. Popcorn time while everyone argues! 

I wanted Max to win the title so maybe i'm a little biased in my opinion but I thought it was the right outcome (Max winning the Drivers and Merc winning the Constructors) but I think the way it got there was all wrong.

Max has been the outstanding driver this year and how many mistakes has he made? I can think of 1 serious one and a few minor ones and even the big mistake he made (Jeddah qualifying) was on probably the best individual lap i've seen since Senna at Monaco.  Hamilton made a few unforced mistakes (Imola, Baku, Russia) and his one exceptional moment (Brazil) could be seen as abit cheap as that engine was a cheat-code and he only had to overtake one driver all weekend. Still a good drive though.   That being said, this is the first year since McLaren that I thought he deserved a Championship on pure merit, it was just that he wasn't the only one who deserved something from the season.

That being said, Hamilton should have won the title yesterday and the fact he didn't is a serious miscarriage of power akin to match-fixing. I get that they wanted one-last-lap of racing but, in all honesty, it was engineered drama for a Netflix series, wasn't it?  There was no way Hamilton could have possibly finished that last lap ahead (maybe due to his teams own over-cautious nature) but he had done all the hard work himself all race and that is not the way it should have ended.

 

However, I do think this could be interesting as there are at least two interesting post-season Red Bull connotations;

Red Bull probably won't be as competitive next season, at least not at the start of the season. The concept of the car is radically different to their recent ones and I know they'd have been working on it for a while so they won't be completely off the pace but I don't think they'll be challenging for either championship next year.

Max won the Championship but there'll always be people saying he's not a 'true champion' so he's going to have to win another one. He can't do the James Hunt / Kimi where he wins one and takes his foot off the gas a little. He did say he only needs to win one to feel satisfied but unless people see him as a World Champion then I don't think he'll feel he's done.

 

Back on topic, he should revert to 33 in the game.  Whether he will, is dependent on the faith you have in Codemasters to do that. It's highly possible for them to do it as they do it for the player's character when you win and then lose World Champion status.   Max said he would change to Number 1, but he might not do that after all. <---  He definitely will. 

I'm not sure what Mercedes' appeal will do to the result tbh. I think the only ramifications will be an FIA internal investigation and re-shuffle and the potential removal of Masi.  I cannot think of an outcome-change that satisfies the race finish for Mercedes benefit without retrospectively shortening a race which contravenes the rules. It needs a scapegoat and I don't think you can hold Red Bull to account for FIA's decision. It's the lobbying of the Race Director that is what I think the problem emanates from and that's both Red Bull and Mercedes that do that the loudest so Merc can't use that as evidence.  This is going to run until about February, I think, but it has the potential to change the way the sport runs from a legal and rules perspective. However, I think it'll change how things work from next season, not the one just gone. 

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I think this should follow the same principle as for player. If Max decides to use number 1 and doesn't win the first season, it should revert back to 33.

Regarding the off-topic, sad that this great season had to end like this. It is unbeleivable that FIA cannot write the rules so that it would be always the same. Either you always let all lapped cars to overtake leader and the safety car comes to pit on next lap, or you never do this. Same principle would be followed in every race. Simple as that and teams could choose they strategy while knowing this.

This time it was decided to not let lapped cars overtake, which was shown in TV broadcast as well. Then some discussion and complaining behind the scenes and decision was changed. What a joke and shame.

Do not think anything will change in "court", which is most probably correct. Otherwise it would be even bigger joke.

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1 hour ago, SmokyAtom07 said:

Back on topic, he should revert to 33 in the game.  Whether he will, is dependent on the faith you have in Codemasters to do that. It's highly possible for them to do it as they do it for the player's character when you win and then lose World Champion status.   Max said he would change to Number 1, but he might not do that after all. <---  He definitely will.

I agree with that, should just follow the normal rules as for the player.

Regarding the rest not that much, as imo the whole season is questionable there are things working in favor of Mercedes that are almost on level with the **** of the last race. Hamilton had the clear advantage/pace in the last race but when you look at how it came to the circumstances in the first place its Verstappen that deserves it way more, he definitely needs to lose his Senna attitude at racing - the super aggressiveness - but apart of that he was incredible this season and fully deserves the title, last race or not. Hamilton made way too many mistakes in the first half of the season but was getting back at it in the second half although thats also when he had his questionable engine advantage but i dont wanna talk about that. Both are amazing drivers but considering bad luck and rule changes forced by Mercedes onto Red Bull its still a deserved WDC for Verstappen. Masi however needs to go, started in the first race when he changed track limits mid race. Penalties need to get harsh again and not just be a fingertap. Hopefully next season we will have a more straight forward season with clear and consistent rules throughout the year.. but i know thats wishful thinking😂

Ps. its not safe how the performance will be because the whole concept of the cars will be completely different, nobody has thought about ground effects for 4 decades so maybe even Newey wont be any help in that regard but who knows, anything is possible for next year.

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26 minutes ago, GizT7 said:

I think this should follow the same principle as for player. If Max decides to use number 1 and doesn't win the first season, it should revert back to 33.

Regarding the off-topic, sad that this great season had to end like this. It is unbeleivable that FIA cannot write the rules so that it would be always the same. Either you always let all lapped cars to overtake leader and the safety car comes to pit on next lap, or you never do this. Same principle would be followed in every race. Simple as that and teams could choose they strategy while knowing this.

This time it was decided to not let lapped cars overtake, which was shown in TV broadcast as well. Then some discussion and complaining behind the scenes and decision was changed. What a joke and shame.

Do not think anything will change in "court", which is most probably correct. Otherwise it would be even bigger joke.

RE; the bit in bold; I do think that has been the biggest flaw in the season. There has been a staggering lack of consistency across the races. I know it's different stewards across the different races but how is a casual viewer, or non-committed fan, supposed to keep up with the rules when they change arbitrarily every weekend on the whims of someone in a chair?

I get that having such strict rules may be seen as strangling the sport but standardising the race-by-race rulebook stops situations like we had. The only time lapped cars shouldn't be allowed through is when it's a safety concern (for example, heavy rain and it'll take them laps to catch up).

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From a game perspective, whatever numbers drivers have and choose, it would be honoured in our contractual agreement as part of the licence. 

In terms of the potential for wider debate here, steering well clear. As long as everyone remains respectful, all good from my books. Was one mammoth show though, I was screaming at the TV and didn't really have a dog in the fight (Most here know I'm a Ferrari fan). Having a championship end behind a Safety Car, for what its worth as my opinion, would've been a unjust end to a incredible competition that captured the globes attention and a terrible advert for the sport. Again, just my opinion.

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4 minutes ago, Meza994 said:

I agree with that, should just follow the normal rules as for the player.

Regarding the rest not that much, as imo the whole season is questionable there are things working in favor of Mercedes that are almost on level with the **** of the last race. Hamilton had the clear advantage/pace in the last race but when you look at how it came to the circumstances in the first place its Verstappen that deserves it way more, he definitely needs to lose his Senna attitude at racing - the super aggressiveness - but apart of that he was incredible this season and fully deserves the title, last race or not. Hamilton made way too many mistakes in the first half of the season but was getting back at it in the second half although thats also when he had his questionable engine advantage but i dont wanna talk about that. Both are amazing drivers but considering bad luck and rule changes forced by Mercedes onto Red Bull its still a deserved WDC for Verstappen. Masi however needs to go, started in the first race when he changed track limits mid race. Penalties need to get harsh again and not just be a fingertap. Hopefully next season we will have a more straight forward season with clear and consistent rules throughout the year.. but i know thats wishful thinking😂

It's only in Career / MyTeam.  I do wonder how far they'll take it though.  For example, if other drivers would become No.1 if they win.  Say Russell wins the title, if he'd want to be No.1 or stay as no.63.  We haven't actually had an instance since Vettel in 2014 (when he hadn't chosen a number) where it's come into play as Rosberg left immediately.   Some drivers may want to keep their number as it's brand and image but some might change for ego purposes.

I can't deny those two are so far ahead of the field in normal conditions.  It's not like Bottas and Perez are even that bad but they're always like 30 seconds down the road!   I don't want it to become a Max vs Lewis fanclub war on the forum as you get that on most other mediums but hopefully a healthy discussion of the season can stay calm and considered.   I do think Masi has got a little too... involved.   I remember when Charlie was doing it and the race was the showpiece and you barely heard/saw from him unless he was needed.  Masi seems to be prevalent all the way through a weekend and that's not how it should be.    I like that you hear the dialogue between the teams and the race director but i'm concerned it's becoming abit too Netflixy at the moment.     I do think there'll be a tightening of the rules for next year but i'm still expecting controversy (even if it is less than this years).

There are plenty of rules that need amending. The changing tyres under red flags, although I don't like the idea that they can't change tyres as you basically lose a pitstop instead of gaining one. The safety-car rules, obviously.  The penalties for new engines as the rule was ironically brought in to help Honda and it very very almost cost them the championship (you could say it did cost them the constructors) as 5 places for every subsequent race to the first infringement is barely anything when you're 3-4 seconds faster than everyone else.   There'd be alot of work for them to do! 

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39 minutes ago, SmokyAtom07 said:

It's only in Career / MyTeam.  I do wonder how far they'll take it though.  For example, if other drivers would become No.1 if they win.  Say Russell wins the title, if he'd want to be No.1 or stay as no.63.  We haven't actually had an instance since Vettel in 2014 (when he hadn't chosen a number) where it's come into play as Rosberg left immediately.   Some drivers may want to keep their number as it's brand and image but some might change for ego purposes.

I can't deny those two are so far ahead of the field in normal conditions.  It's not like Bottas and Perez are even that bad but they're always like 30 seconds down the road!   I don't want it to become a Max vs Lewis fanclub war on the forum as you get that on most other mediums but hopefully a healthy discussion of the season can stay calm and considered.   I do think Masi has got a little too... involved.   I remember when Charlie was doing it and the race was the showpiece and you barely heard/saw from him unless he was needed.  Masi seems to be prevalent all the way through a weekend and that's not how it should be.    I like that you hear the dialogue between the teams and the race director but i'm concerned it's becoming abit too Netflixy at the moment.     I do think there'll be a tightening of the rules for next year but i'm still expecting controversy (even if it is less than this years).

There are plenty of rules that need amending. The changing tyres under red flags, although I don't like the idea that they can't change tyres as you basically lose a pitstop instead of gaining one. The safety-car rules, obviously.  The penalties for new engines as the rule was ironically brought in to help Honda and it very very almost cost them the championship (you could say it did cost them the constructors) as 5 places for every subsequent race to the first infringement is barely anything when you're 3-4 seconds faster than everyone else.   There'd be alot of work for them to do! 

Agree with almost everything completely, especially the rules need tightening, engine penalties were introduced to punish teams who were forced to take more engines due to reliability etc. noone was thinking about teams intentionally breaking the rule haha, the rest obviously too, forcing off the track etc. need clarification so that Verstappen might see super late lunges are also not great when you force the other car off but this one goes for both top drivers.

Anyway the point i dont totally agree with is Masi getting too involved as we dont know how much Charlie was actually getting involved in things as it was never broadcasted when teams talked to him or he to the teams. Masi is definitely too weak and doesnt show enough authority to the likes of Horner and Wolff who constantly try to lobby him. Should he stay for whatever reason he needs to shut it down as soon as it starts next season, otherwise its gonna be even worse. But this is probably also why he is getting at least a bit more involved than Charlie, but we wont know how much more as we never heard Charlie. However i think Liberty Media love the drama, they see the big $$$ in this😂

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19 minutes ago, Meza994 said:

Agree with almost everything completely, especially the rules need tightening, engine penalties were introduced to punish teams who were forced to take more engines due to reliability etc. noone was thinking about teams intentionally breaking the rule haha, the rest obviously too, forcing off the track etc. need clarification so that Verstappen might see super late lunges are also not great when you force the other car off but this one goes for both top drivers.

Anyway the point i dont totally agree with is Masi getting too involved as we dont know how much Charlie was actually getting involved in things as it was never broadcasted when teams talked to him or he to the teams. Masi is definitely too weak and doesnt show enough authority to the likes of Horner and Wolff who constantly try to lobby him. Should he stay for whatever reason he needs to shut it down as soon as it starts next season, otherwise its gonna be even worse. But this is probably also why he is getting at least a bit more involved than Charlie, but we wont know how much more as we never heard Charlie. However i think Liberty Media love the drama, they see the big $$$ in this😂

I completely understand your point about Masi/Charlie comparison. The increased coverage of TV these days does mean you're more likely to hear of Masi than you were Charlie so it's possible it's always been that way but we never saw it.  However, it's possible that i'm seeing Charlie through the rose-tinted glasses of yesteryear but I don't think we'd have had a situation like yesterday (and most of the year) if he was the one at the helm.  Although, I don't doubt McLaren and Ferrari were lobbying alot in the good ol' days when they were at the forefront and Ferrari used to have an awful lot of power behind the scenes so I imagine keeping them on-side was a consideration when it came to 50/50 decisions. 

Oh, Liberty would have loved this season!  This season, and the last race and the ramifications, has been a real cash-cow!   There'll be pressure on the start of next season to be good as the watching numbers for the first race of next season will probably be higher than the first race of most recent seasons. However, if any one team is super-dominant due to the new regs, I think the numbers will dwindle again. 

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5 hours ago, BarryBL said:

From a game perspective, whatever numbers drivers have and choose, it would be honoured in our contractual agreement as part of the licence. 

Just to clarify: if/when Verstappen chooses to use #1 in real life in 2022, that means that his number in F1 2022 will be #1 instead of #33, no matter what happens in the game? 

Having both the player and Verstappen use #1 at the same time would be...

The-Spiderman-pointing-at-Spiderman-temp

 

Sort of like, I don't know, having the player drive as Michael Schumacher with Michael Schumacher as his teammate... 

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21 minutes ago, Sector4 said:

Just to clarify: if/when Verstappen chooses to use #1 in real life in 2022, that means that his number in F1 2022 will be #1 instead of #33, no matter what happens in the game? 

Having both the player and Verstappen use #1 at the same time would be...

The-Spiderman-pointing-at-Spiderman-temp

 

Sort of like, I don't know, having the player drive as Michael Schumacher with Michael Schumacher as his teammate... 

I get this reference of Michael driving with Michael!   This was the reasoning for not being able to drive as one of the icons? 😂

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3 hours ago, Sector4 said:

Just to clarify: if/when Verstappen chooses to use #1 in real life in 2022, that means that his number in F1 2022 will be #1 instead of #33, no matter what happens in the game? 

 

I'd like this clarified too @BarryBL. If We are playing career mode (or My Team) in 2022, and Max starts as number 1 but loses at the end of the first season, surely he should then revert to #33, or there could end up with two number ones the following season?

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I won't be surprised if Max just keeps his 33 number personally. I'd forgotten the potential number change actually given how Lewis has just stuck with 44.

(The race yesterday ended in embarassment for the sport. Max is a worthy champion based on the season as a whole but Lewis was robbed yesterday.)

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