DiRT Rally - do the car settings really do anything?

[R3dbvll 0]

Hi all,
Please excuse my  ignorance here.  I'm not a huge car expert, I have a vague idea of what he various car settings do, and the difference in handling between FWD/RWD/4WD cars.

I have  a fully unlocked Mini Cooper S and Ford Escort MK2 as a comparison.  To me, it doesn't really seem to matter what I do with many of the settings, the handling really doesn't change very much.  I do wonder how much of those changes are psycho-sensitive, i.e. you think it makes a difference, but it doesn't necessarily.

I find the in-game descriptions of each setting to be vague and confusing at best, (.e.g the toe settings, and the inconsistency in rear/front description, and effect).   Perhaps it is just my poor driving skill (although I've been able to beat some Greece stages on professional level in the Escort Mk2).

What I would very much like to see are some full descriptions of the settings, along with clear illustrations as to what to expect on different surfaces.  Ideally I would love a 'play area' in game, where I could clearly see the outcome of changes, because I'm just not seeing them on a stage shake-down.

I've read various guides, and often found them confusing and contradictory too.

Am I alone in finding this?  Are there any plans to develop car settings, provide a tutorial, or training ground etc?  I find this area of the game to be extremely frustrating.

[TonyRickard 17]

This guide should be worth a look

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=456484010

[R3dbvll 0]

TonyRickard said:

This guide should be worth a look

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=456484010

Thank you for that.

Yes, I have seen and followed that guide.  While informative, I didn't find the changes I made from the guide made much of a difference, which is my point.

Some things obviously do, such as gear ratios.  Ride height can have an impact - although testing the mini out in Germany for example, I found it didn't make any difference to handling whether the ride was at its heigh-est or lowest.  Again that may be my lack of skill.

Spring settings can make a ride a little bumpier I guess, but other settings really didn't seem to do much.

Perhaps what I need is some direction on exactly what to look for in changes of handling characteristics.

I'd still like to know if CodeMasters plan on putting any tutorials or testing areas in (I know RBR had that).

[EddDragn 0]

Same problem with searching for a good guides and tips. That annoys me. All of this, as well as the test sites/rigs must be present in the game.

But you mistaken about uselessness of the settings. With default setup of Mini Cooper S I can't beat the best AI time. But using more appropriate setup for keyboard handling I won Elite Championship (frankly speaking, best AI results at the different levels of difficulty are almost identical). So tuning is important at least for non-wheel controllers.

--------

Brake Bias:
You can see difference when you try to steer while braking.

Gears:
At least on slow Mini Cooper S you really can see difference between better acceleration or higher top speed.
Also Mini Cooper S has too short 1st gear. It almost useless in default setup. But you can make it much longer in adv. settings and you will see difference at the start of the race or in the hairpins.

Suspension and Dumping affects many aspects of behavior. So I pick up their values more instinctively than consciously.

For example, default Mini Cooper S was too jumpy in Finland.
I set much harder dumpers and softer suspension: http://i.imgur.com/A249TuM.jpg?1
(toe angles is zero/zero in this settings, that is good for Mini, so I even didn't touched advanced settings)

And voila! Speed up to 140 km/h (it's a limit in this setup) and almost never touch brakes. Car isn't slides excessively. Thus, you can pass almost all corners in very slight drift or even without drift at all. And much more controlled jumps. And almost guaranteed win as a result.

Most RWD cars in Greece also need much softer suspension to be more or less handleable on keyboard.
And so on.

But I haven't clear algorithm for suspension/dumpers tuning. And also need assistance in this question.

[dgeesi0 305]

there is no guides for setting up cars with any proof of benefits.

not one.

the devs should do a full explanation with shown times and benefits.

[Porkhammer 78]

dgeesi0 said:

there is no guides for setting up cars with any proof of benefits.

not one.

the devs should do a full explanation with shown times and benefits.

The benefits differ so much between individuals, how could they possibly prove anything? One dude may go like "whoa this feels awesome" while another is like "this blows". I find reading the tooltips and experimenting by yourself gives the best results.

[METAL666nz 0]

Just have to tweak the settings until you get them in a place that suits you. It is all trial and error, until you find that setup that fits with your style. The tool-tips in game give you a general idea off what everything does, if you need more info google is your friend.

[grAndmAmOses 0]

I love the moment when I compare my carefully tinkered-with setup to the stock setup by doing a stock run and then beating my time with stock.

I look like the thing on Munch's painting.

[R3dbvll 0]

grAndmAmOses said:

I love the moment when I compare my carefully tinkered-with setup to the stock setup by doing a stock run and then beating my time with stock.

I look like the thing on Munch's painting.

Yes, exactly!  And that is partly what has led me down this route to discuss more broadly.

To be clear for everyone - I'm not saying the settings don't do anything, or that they are useless, I'm simply asking if all the settings do anything or very much.  After all, some of the settings only allow small adjustments.

But back to your point above grAndmAmOses, I spent a day driving the Escort Mk2 and learning how to drive it (I don't have experience with RWD cars).   After getting used to its default settings (in Greece), I then spent a few hours adjusting settings bit by bit, trying to follow various guides.  When I'd finished, I was able to compete at Professional level and often win a stage.

Then just our of interest, I try the mk2 at stock settings, and low-and-behold, I'm still winning at professional level, and I can't really tell the difference in car handling.   One thing that tells me is that I've simply got better at driving that car.  The other is that I simply don't know what to look out for in the changes, hence the need for better guides and tutorials.

I accept that many settings are a matter of personal preference and driving style, but before you get to that point, there are settings changes which should have the same impact for everyone, and should be noticeable (regardless of whether or not it suits your style).

[Evilsmurf 90]

For myself, I use the settings to make the car feel better for my driving style, rather than to try get more grip. If the car is setup more to my liking, I have more confidence in it and will push harder, making my times faster. 

[TonyRickard 17]

R3dbvll said:

Then just our of interest, I try the mk2 at stock settings, and low-and-behold, I'm still winning at professional level, and I can't really tell the difference in car handling.   One thing that tells me is that I've simply got better at driving that car.  The other is that I simply don't know what to look out for in the changes, hence the need for better guides and tutorials.

I accept that many settings are a matter of personal preference and driving style, but before you get to that point, there are settings changes which should have the same impact for everyone, and should be noticeable (regardless of whether or not it suits your style).

The thing with testing is that you need to have got to a level of consistency on a given stage before you can prove the difference changes to setups or game options make to your performance. As an example I tried the Kadett at Pant Mawr. Did about a couple of stages at 3:15 or so. I then tried turning vysnc off and did a 3:05. I was convinced that the setting made a gain. Turned it back on and went faster again. Now my target is to break 3 mins which beats the AI at Masters. This is all with the default setup. The gains all came from within not the setups nor the game settings. I guess now is the time to test setups :)

[R3dbvll 0]

TonyRickard said:

R3dbvll said:

Then just our of interest, I try the mk2 at stock settings, and low-and-behold, I'm still winning at professional level, and I can't really tell the difference in car handling.   One thing that tells me is that I've simply got better at driving that car.  The other is that I simply don't know what to look out for in the changes, hence the need for better guides and tutorials.

I accept that many settings are a matter of personal preference and driving style, but before you get to that point, there are settings changes which should have the same impact for everyone, and should be noticeable (regardless of whether or not it suits your style).

The thing with testing is that you need to have got to a level of consistency on a given stage before you can prove the difference changes to setups or game options make to your performance. As an example I tried the Kadett at Pant Mawr. Did about a couple of stages at 3:15 or so. I then tried turning vysnc off and did a 3:05. I was convinced that the setting made a gain. Turned it back on and went faster again. Now my target is to break 3 mins which beats the AI at Masters. This is all with the default setup. The gains all came from within not the setups nor the game settings. I guess now is the time to test setups :)

Good points.  I would be interested to know what you find with setup changes now you are comfortable with the Kadett.

[WasabiWei 0]

That is a good point. Imagine being able to test setups with the benchmark run that is there for video settings. First off, I would make a terrible setup and see how the AI driver does, bwahaha! 

[ellemenophee 0]

EddDragn said:

Same problem with searching for a good guides and tips. That annoys me. All of this, as well as the test sites/rigs must be present in the game.

But you mistaken about uselessness of the settings. With default setup of Mini Cooper S I can't beat the best AI time. But using more appropriate setup for keyboard handling I won Elite Championship (frankly speaking, best AI results at the different levels of difficulty are almost identical). So tuning is important at least for non-wheel controllers.

--------

Brake Bias:
You can see difference when you try to steer while braking.

Gears:
At least on slow Mini Cooper S you really can see difference between better acceleration or higher top speed.
Also Mini Cooper S has too short 1st gear. It almost useless in default setup. But you can make it much longer in adv. settings and you will see difference at the start of the race or in the hairpins.

Suspension and Dumping affects many aspects of behavior. So I pick up their values more instinctively than consciously.

For example, default Mini Cooper S was too jumpy in Finland.
I set much harder dumpers and softer suspension: http://i.imgur.com/A249TuM.jpg?1
(toe angles is zero/zero in this settings, that is good for Mini, so I even didn't touched advanced settings)

And voila! Speed up to 140 km/h (it's a limit in this setup) and almost never touch brakes. Car isn't slides excessively. Thus, you can pass almost all corners in very slight drift or even without drift at all. And much more controlled jumps. And almost guaranteed win as a result.

Most RWD cars in Greece also need much softer suspension to be more or less handleable on keyboard.
And so on.

But I haven't clear algorithm for suspension/dumpers tuning. And also need assistance in this question.

I play on a controller. Can drive not touching the brake & using oversteer/ slide to negotiate the course with no crashes & if am lucky if i can finish with a third time in a Championship stage or Rally stage in the mini, usually i come 4th or 5th. I am constantly underpowered even if i am driving it semi automatic & have raced in manual. At the first split i am constantly 10 seconds down, & at least & 50-60 seconds at the end of the stage, regardless of what settings i have chosen. That equals 4 mins at the end of a championship stage. I would love to be going faster like other driving games but i can't see why my split time is forever behind my race field for non incident flat to the floor driving. ???

[ellemenophee 0]

In Advanced Game play settings : the bottom 5 settings on the page.
When i pushed the accelerate button on the controller the slider bar showed : 67 %
Weird.
I reset the button & its now at 100% acceleration.
Car & i are happier with the split times now.

[EthanDean57 0]

I will say that damper tuning makes a hell of a difference. I tested the Impreza R4 at Finland, and it bottomed out bad and just felt terrible and uncontrollable on landings. I went to tune the dampers correctly (set slow/fast bump/rebound and thresholds, springs etc), and it lands soft as a cloud.

I might do some experimentation with certain other settings (ARBs, camber, etc) at some point though to feel their full effects. Never played with those much. I'll do a thorough testing and report back if I can.

[Dytut 89]

To be quite honest, I wouldn't even bother touching any of the settings until you're as fast as you can get with default setups, at least if you're driving with a wheel.

If you can't beat masters AI with default setup, you need to get better at driving. When you want to push faster and compete with the better humans then you might need to do some fiddling.

[dgeesi0 305]

some cars with adjustments are night and day faster but yes i think you should get decent with default before tweaking.

[versedi 39]

IMHO there's no need to get decent with default setup if you know what you're doing and what want to achieve from the start. Even a slight experience from arcade game is allowing you to get better setup. Not to mention totally **** default gearbox ratios (1st gear too short).

[Dytut 89]

dgeesi0 said:

some cars with adjustments are night and day faster but yes i think you should get decent with default before tweaking.

Absolutely! But I think that actually accentuates the problem a bit, since you can get the impression that your times are limited by the car setup instead of your driving skills.
I made that error when I started off in DR. I thought that car setups was what held me back, and that the way forward was to find setups. And I could actually improve my times a bit by just changing the setups.
This actually held me back from improving as a driver, because whenever I spun/crashed or went in too fast in a corner and slid off my reaction was to try and find what was wrong with the car setup instead of what was wrong with my driving.

[Cornflex1473 0]

Try some setups from the Dirt Rally workshop and you will find that they handle very different to the default setup. As I am not a setup expert either and I do not want to become one I am quite happy that we can just download user setups from the workshop site.

[KevM 44]

Settings do make a difference.  On some stages and locations, it would be more noticeable than others.  On Tarmac, the tweaks are very subtle, but the likes of Wales or Finland, the right suspension/diff/brakes setup can be night and day!  

Some cars are undrivable in standard setup, but with a lot of tweaking, can be transformed.  
Take the Group A Impreza for example, out of the box, it understeers dangerously.  With an understanding of the Tuning menu, you can set this car to be very drivable & fun in comparison.  
The Polo R is another that responds very well to time spent on setup.

[dgeesi0 305]

yes but also remember that each set up is not your own.i was on about this in vjabs stream with ramPages config for focus i think it was or fiesta. my almost default setting was 5-6 seconds better than the one on steam i downloaded to try.

so even though a fast driver does well with it doesn't mean you will.

on most cars just tightening diffs and selecting short or long gears is enough.

[Cornflex1473 0]

dgeesi0 said:

yes but also remember that each set up is not your own.

Yes, you are right. You have to try the setups from others if they fit to your style of driving. You can do so in shakedown stages. But I think if you do not want to dive into the science of car setups the workshop created ones are a good alternative.

[KevM 44]

No, I agree.  Setups are hugely Personal.  
But, with the way V2 physics are in this game and with the cars now significantly lighter, they are super-sensitive to the right changes.  There's more to it than just tightening diffs.  I was rallying Monte last night and tightening diffs noticeably increased understeer and ruined turn-in.