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Future for DiRT Rally

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This game has the potential to be as popular as iRacing. The graphics engine is superb, the sounds are superb, the physics are superb, it has all the makings of a master piece. I just hope the title continues indefinitely like iRacing with regular updates, rather than get dropped and become a niche part time type sim. Why not develop the online services and make them subscription based? More and more games are becoming that way; iRacing, Star Citizen and Planetside2 for example, that's the way to do it imo.. one platform, paid for content and services. This title could still be around in many years from now, no need to release new titles year after year if you're making money from developing a platform and services, the appeal of it for me is the longevity of it, no one enjoys having to install new versions of the same game all the time, am sure most prefer to invest in open ended platforms and services.

rFactor failed because ISI did not realise the value in providing online services or an ongoing indefinite development program, now it seems they have given up on sim racing and started on a new space sim which is a real shame because they started to develop their racing games about 20 years ago and were making great progress, rFactor2 could have been as popular as iRacing if only they had gone down a similar route, they didn't and now I doubt they'll make another racing sim, would hate to see the same thing happen with DiRT Rally, not when it could so easily be a huge success.



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Fuck making Dirt Rally a subscription based game.
Charming!

However you have a point, some are put off by iRacing because of that. It could of course be 50/50, buy the game and get offline services, pay a subscription and get online services. Let's face it, most are going to pay for the subscription and you can't just expect all services indefinitely for years and years while only having paid £30 for the game originally. The idea behind having part of it subscription based is that the devs can focus on developing the game and services rather than trying to think about making a whole new game or worse, dropping the game/series completely.

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I fully support a subscription based model if it means they develop the game for years and we get certain features:

  More countries and longer stages, possibly laser scanned
 • Online rally multiplayer lobbies
  Esports support including ability to spectate live rally lobbies and support for online league and tournament play
  Robust replay system. Freely seek to any part of the replay, small file size, telemetry gui, free camera, etc.
  Better access to leaderboards
 • General improvement of car and collision physics

It's a bold business move and development strategy that I believe can work so long as it's done with the right vision. It should only be done if they're going to expand the capabilities of the engine and make a commitment to realism and competition. I'm sure they won't be converting Dirt Rally in this way because they plan on releasing it to consoles. As far as I'm aware there's no subscription based game on consoles. So that means it has to be a sequel and they'd have to make it PC exclusive, which personally I'm fine with.

Taking a game in this direction would be making a serious long term commitment to the genre and CM might not have that in mind. Hopefully they do though!

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RichA15 said:
Fuck making Dirt Rally a subscription based game.
Charming!

However you have a point, some are put off by iRacing because of that. It could of course be 50/50, buy the game and get offline services, pay a subscription and get online services. Let's face it, most are going to pay for the subscription and you can't just expect all services indefinitely for years and years while only having paid £30 for the game originally. The idea behind having part of it subscription based is that the devs can focus on developing the game and services rather than trying to think about making a whole new game or worse, dropping the game/series completely.
I'd rather not do subscription based. I think it makes the whole project less ... well, less. There's no real reason to make big improvements in subscription based. It sounds kind of crazy, but it actually limits you. If CM make another DR then they could redo everything and not have to worry about a new graphics or physics engine messing everything up. They also have to provide more content and at higher quality for people to pay for it. I don't do iRacing because of the subscription based pay model (I'm usually broke, therefore would rather just buy a game) but other than perhaps some cars and maybe tracks, it doesn't seem like anything's changed. You could argue that they're a small team, and they might be, but over all these years and that subscription based model, I can't take that seriously. DR2 could have an improved graphics and physics engine, more cars and longer tracks, and more content. It's a lot easier to do it that way than having to try and let's say update iRacing that much.

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Golly, it's crazy how often I find myself wishing that I could pay more & more monies for video games! Why not pay by-the-minute, including time spent in loading screens, navigating menus, and even when the game is paused?


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Operator1 said:

Golly, it's crazy how often I find myself wishing that I could pay more & more monies for video games! Why not pay by-the-minute, including time spent in loading screens, navigating menus, and even when the game is paused?

You don't think paying, say, $9 a month to gain access to a masterpiece of a rally game is reasonable? $9 a month for a hobby seems like a great deal to me.

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ramPage16 said:
Operator1 said:

Golly, it's crazy how often I find myself wishing that I could pay more & more monies for video games! Why not pay by-the-minute, including time spent in loading screens, navigating menus, and even when the game is paused?


You don't think paying, say, $9 a month to gain access to a masterpiece of a rally game is reasonable? $9 a month for a hobby seems like a great deal to me.

Reminds me of the old AOL days when people used to be charged by-the-minute for internet access.

You are free to keep sending in more payments to game companies if you want to. It's not an option I'd prefer.


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ramPage16 said:
Operator1 said:

Golly, it's crazy how often I find myself wishing that I could pay more & more monies for video games! Why not pay by-the-minute, including time spent in loading screens, navigating menus, and even when the game is paused?
You don't think paying, say, $9 a month to gain access to a masterpiece of a rally game is reasonable? $9 a month for a hobby seems like a great deal to me.
I think it's absolutely ridiculous. I just took a second glance at iRacing's pricing options, the best value being less then half the content for $90 and an additional $12 for each car. I'm not against spending money on a hobby, but I'd rather just pay $60, get all the content, and play as long as I want. After a few years, when they release a new game, I might buy it, and it would still be a significantly cheaper option, and have more content. You can argue that Forza isn't a sim, but by creating a series, they can add hundreds of new cars that are all accurate, and again at a cheaper price. Think about it, iRacing, $90 for 12 cars and 14 tracks, or Forza, $60 for 450 cars and 26 tracks. It also of course has DLC car packs, for roughly $1 per car.

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9 bucks is still a lot of money for people that haven't got any.
If someone doesn't have 9 bucks they couldn't have bought DIRT rally so they aren't really codemasters problem are they. 
JZStudios said:
ramPage16 said:
Operator1 said:

Golly, it's crazy how often I find myself wishing that I could pay more & more monies for video games! Why not pay by-the-minute, including time spent in loading screens, navigating menus, and even when the game is paused?
You don't think paying, say, $9 a month to gain access to a masterpiece of a rally game is reasonable? $9 a month for a hobby seems like a great deal to me.
I think it's absolutely ridiculous. I just took a second glance at iRacing's pricing options, the best value being less then half the content for $90 and an additional $12 for each car. I'm not against spending money on a hobby, but I'd rather just pay $60, get all the content, and play as long as I want. After a few years, when they release a new game, I might buy it, and it would still be a significantly cheaper option, and have more content. You can argue that Forza isn't a sim, but by creating a series, they can add hundreds of new cars that are all accurate, and again at a cheaper price. Think about it, iRacing, $90 for 12 cars and 14 tracks, or Forza, $60 for 450 cars and 26 tracks. It also of course has DLC car packs, for roughly $1 per car.

Forza is a multi platform game (lots of different racing styles/and car classes) so it appeals to many. iRacing and any rally game let alone a rally sim (which DIRT isn't but is still great IMHO) is a niche and therefore takes more money from each customer to justify. If a company can continuously add content to a dedicated rally game, (ignoring  rallycross for this post) without having to develope an entire new title each year and still make money from it then I say YIPPIE. 

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9 bucks is still a lot of money for people that haven't got any.
If someone doesn't have 9 bucks they couldn't have bought DIRT rally so they aren't really codemasters problem are they.
Yes, since - gasp, would you believe it - we're customers too. I didn't buy Dirt Rally myself, a friend was kind enough to gift it to me. Nine bucks may not sound a lot to you, but to some people, that is all that remains after purchasing all the necessities at any given month. Who in their right mind would blow that on a game subscription?

People with money would obviously love the idea of making Dirt Rally subscription based, but the less fortunate ones would suffer.

Therefore the idea can fuck right off, and hopefully Codemasters won't listen to such nonsense. I'm fairly certain they won't, but yeah. :)

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JZStudios said:
I think it's absolutely ridiculous. I just took a second glance at iRacing's pricing options, the best value being less then half the content for $90 and an additional $12 for each car. I'm not against spending money on a hobby, but I'd rather just pay $60, get all the content, and play as long as I want. After a few years, when they release a new game, I might buy it, and it would still be a significantly cheaper option, and have more content. You can argue that Forza isn't a sim, but by creating a series, they can add hundreds of new cars that are all accurate, and again at a cheaper price. Think about it, iRacing, $90 for 12 cars and 14 tracks, or Forza, $60 for 450 cars and 26 tracks. It also of course has DLC car packs, for roughly $1 per car.

Forza is a multi platform game (lots of different racing styles/and car classes) so it appeals to many. iRacing and any rally game let alone a rally sim (which DIRT isn't but is still great IMHO) is a niche and therefore takes more money from each customer to justify. If a company can continuously add content to a dedicated rally game, (ignoring  rallycross for this post) without having to develope an entire new title each year and still make money from it then I say YIPPIE. 
But making a new title every few years is a better way to do it, is what I'm trying to say, you get more quality content. If iRacing wants to limit it's fanbase that much, then it's on them. I don't like the GT/race/F1 cars, I like road cars. If iRacing was say, $30-40 I might save up a bit and buy it. Being $100 and not really having any cars I'd want to drive, I'll skip it. DR can be like Forza, or the DiRT games, have all the different types of off road racing, and keep building upon it. Then it appeals to more people and they still have the same quality and more content. People today want a $60 game with a good amount of content, and subscription based games don't do either, they're expensive, and have very little content.

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9 bucks is still a lot of money for people that haven't got any.
If someone doesn't have 9 bucks they couldn't have bought DIRT rally so they aren't really codemasters problem are they.
Yes, since - gasp, would you believe it - we're customers too. I didn't buy Dirt Rally myself, a friend was kind enough to gift it to me. Nine bucks may not sound a lot to you, but to some people, that is all that remains after purchasing all the necessities at any given month. Who in their right mind would blow that on a game subscription?

People with money would obviously love the idea of making Dirt Rally subscription based, but the less fortunate ones would suffer.

Therefore the idea can fuck right off, and hopefully Codemasters won't listen to such nonsense. I'm fairly certain they won't, but yeah. :)
I agree, the thought of subscription based turns me off the game completely, and if DR went that way, I wouldn't support it. The only way I might support it is if they keep making BIG updates every month. iRacing is expensive and has almost no content, and any additional content is crazy expensive.

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The R3E model of modular content but a more expensive 'complete' game I'd be happy with, I won't touch iRacing where I have to buy content but I must pay them each month just to be able to use it.

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The key difference is that iRacing is a purely online experience if you want any form of opponents. Rallying is all about being alone on a stage against the clock. Sure an online experience can be built around it it but it is not the core demand.

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oh, no man... no no no no. Not me.

Tell me next year Codemasters will develop Dirt Rally 2, again in early access, at the same price like this year (+-15$) and I´m totally in.
To tell the truth, I dont want to play Dirt Rally "1" for years. I prefer to face new Codemasters games because the next one will be better than its predecessor due to experience and feedback gained.

Ridiculous price, demonstrated customer feedback implemented into the game, possibility to provide ideas and suggestions, new contents with every update...

I can repeat my participation on early access like Dirt Rally forever. Quality product over a great planification and excelent early access management.

Fuck subscriptions. I have enough bills and receipts by the end of the month. I dont need one more. and fewer one for "playing". No sir.

And if Codemasters decide to launch new contents (DLC) at the end of Early Access, I will have the choice to buy them or not. E.G. I would not buy a Hillclimb DLC, but a Rally cars + trax one

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OzoreXS said:

And if Codemasters decide to launch new contents (DLC) at the end of Early Access, I will have the choice to buy them or not. E.G. I would not buy a Hillclimb DLC, but a Rally cars + trax one
Same here. It is such a different market. Previous DIRT titles sold in millions, there are three times the numbers signed up to DIRT Rally early access than iRacing. The numbers of online players in sim racing is remarkably low, so to make it a viable service iRacing need to charge relatively high subscription rates. Measures of success differ dramatically between the titles.

For the title to continue indefinitely it just needs to keep on selling tons of copies!


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Subscription? Well, as a student, i would cancel immediately, No game is fun enough to warrant a subscription with my current situation.
Poor people are a thing, definitely more than people with consistent earnings and i don't think Codies/DiRT can afford going the subscription route, can backfire a bit harsh.

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Subsciption is definitely out of question for me, and USD9 per month for 1 game? That is USD108 per year, which would probably translate into EUR110 or more. Not to mention that as soon as the online servers are unavailable, you are left with...nothing.

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No to subscriptions from me, and hesitant towards DLC.

I rather have support in the form of frequent patches that completely polish the game in every way, maybe with a pretty car added every now and then. And if there is demand for more STUFF into the game, and if CM is cool with it, I'd really love to see an expansionpack with multiple locations in them.

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i think this just comes down to that we want this game to grow. extra content should be added.its got great grounds and could be built on nicely.

i would happily pay for dlc for extra places but not subscription.

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The problem with doing a series these days is that it can result in masses of people moving away, the attraction of a platform is that growth and development is continuous, that in and of itself gives customers the confidence to invest not just in the game but in their hardware too. Also another major problem with doing series is that the previous content can't really be used so it's lost forever, the appeal of using a platform is that it's possible to build a library of content. In the past updates were more about upgrading the graphics/sound engines or a DirectX update, but in this day and age that isn't so much an issue and it's easy enough to update an entire platform thanks to the internet.

To some extent iRacing is expensive, but then it's only as expensive as you want it to be, for example you could spend $40 for a year deal, then do only the rookie series, I do believe the base content has grown recently too. So it's not as bad as some are making out.

DiRT is different though as it has a lot of offline appeal. So you could buy it for £40 and get all the platform updates for nothing forever. The game as it is now has enough content and features to be worth £40 (without bugs and some more fixes/features). So you can't complain if there are new packs that have to be paid for, and the online services cost money to run so you can't expect them for free forever, just look at the Battlefield series, they always kill the online services after a few years and it's like no one ever played that game online which is pretty sad imo.

iRacing in 5 years will look completely different to how it does now, but it will still have all the same content, all the same members, a long history and it will still be what it's always been, iRacing. It's a no brainer imo, I don't want to see this series disappear into the background, Assetto Corsa may be heading in that direction if the online features don't improve, rFactor2 was never going to work imo because people get tired of learning new platforms all the time and they didn't develop strong online features/services, the sad thing is that engine was developed over about 20 years, was used to make Simbin titles and is still being used for (sorry I forget the name of it, has tonnes of cars made by Huesinkveld), it has lots of potential but now they've started making space sims, wouldn't be surprised if development of that engine stops completely and no one is racing it at all in 5 years from now.

The Battlefield series is still alive only because they put so much effort and money into making new titles appealing, but just think if they had made a platform instead, we'd still be playing all BF3 maps and content, all Bad Company maps and content except on the new Frostbite engine. Just seems such a shame to let it all go to waste.

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