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My (Conspiracy) theory as to why in game help is non existent


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Every year I find it odd that there is no proper in game assistance when it comes to understanding how to set your car up for specific tracks and conditions.   Etc as in a helpful race engineer (Jeff is next to useless).  And my conclusion is no one directly involved in the games development has a scooby doo.   You only have to read the extremely vague descriptions for things like camber settings to know whoever wrote had no idea and gave up before his head exploded.  And whoever signed off on it had no clue either and thought yeah yeah that sounds really vague and confusing so it must be right.

We do have a racing sim god available to us with @PJTierney.  But as valuable as his videos are.  I think I’ve seen him say he doesn’t give specific car setup advice as Theres not a one size fits all  fast setup.  As setups depend on style and preference off individual drivers.  his videos reinforce the fact hes a driver not an engineer  and his videos are more focused at helping with understanding driving techniques and aswell as track walkthroughs.  Along with helping figure out how to find good camera and controller/wheel settings.

So for those beginners and even experts myself included have to google and watch YouTube videos.  From So called F1 sim gurus who all give complete different advice and even some off the most popular YouTubers talk out off their backside. And can only explain camber settings by saying **** like left left or right right.  And have no idea what way the wheels angle when adding or subtracting negative camber.  So if like me you end up with more head scratching. 

Not to mention I’m guessing but I’d say fast majority off people who play this game are men in their  20s and up.  And what do all these men have in common.  We don’t ever like having to admit to ourselves we need help let alone having to go actively seeking the internet for it.  Only then to find your getting help from a kid who’s balls have yet to drop. Or some worse  40 year virgin who’s mother still tucks him in at night.   

Whereas giving actual helpful advice in game is part off the game and therefore us men know it will be the best place  (ideal world) to get valuable help and advice and we may be pigheaded but we ain’t completely  stupid.

But if the self described  you tube  gurus  can’t help?  How’s having ingame advice going to be any better. You ask.

Way back when Ps3 launched one off the first games was F1 championship edition.  And it had proper explanations and diagrams on how things worked. Not only that but during practice  your race engineer would basically tell you all tracks require different setups aswell as individual drivers. So you would go out do a lap with default setup to get a base lap time. And then first you would have setup camber for instance And your engineer would give you two camber settings to try between increased or decreased camber compared to the default setting. With the explanation that one option gives better grip in the corners at the cost off tyre wear. And the other gives better braking and acceleration and tyre wear at the cost off grip.  Then you would compare the lap times you achieved to your base lap time.  And if one gave you better time and felt good you would pick that.  Then you could do more laps to fine tune or you could then move on to downforce settings etc.

would also make  practice sessions in the current f1 games worthwhile 

You would also get help when setting up your car for wet races.

If a game developed all those years back on a fraction off the budget compared to  today’s games.  How is it codemasters can only give us are vague explanations in setup menus and a race engineer who always give you  wrong information or strategy options that mainly benefit the ai teams. 

Because I suppose lead game developer asked to bring in a expert f1 race engineer to consult. And a bean counter probably replied hmm that sounds expensive? I have a better idea.  You computer developer types are supposed to be super intelligent.  I’m sure your capable to put enough help in the game to meet minimum cost and requirements. Anyway there’s always YouTube and that won’t cost us anything.    Developer says but your bean worship us computer geeks fit our stereotypes.  We never even got near anything that may get our  hands dirty esp engines and the like.  Plus we actively avoid all things that are considered  sport. And to that bean counter who must be obeyed.  Reminds him that if he doesn’t develop a premium product with minimum cost by cutting every corner.  He/she and his whole team will be redundant.  Just Like those other dedicated and talented game developer teams activision and EA like to get rid off once they have served their purpose.  

 Hehehe sorry I’m talking so much ****.  Completely out off my face and bored 

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There are 2 sides of the story imho:

On one hand, they are making things too easy for us - you go to time trial, pick a few setups from the cars leading there (or from names that are well known, since the leaders are cheaters most of the time and their setups wont help you at all), you try them out and there you go with a fully working, simracer proven setup. You can even set time trial to wet and do the same. This is close to zero effort and so every casual player will have their hand on decent setups to chose from in no time, even without browsing anywhere.

On the other hand, if your goal is to understand all the bells and whistles of these setup opportunities, then you are basically left alone and noone is there to guide you (in game, at least). I agree that Jeff is useless most of the time, and that he is not helpful in working on setups at all. This is a vast field for improvements to the franchise, no doubt, but maybe this is harder to implement than we think. Besides, the lack of in game telemetry is a spanner in the works here, for sure. From F1 2020 to F1 2021 I have the impression that e.g. you cant really feel / hear the floor scratching the tarmac when you set the car too low, this was way easier to notice in the older game. Note, that developing setups is especially harsh in myteam mode, where your car itself has a lot of deficits right from the get go - it may be hard to find a good setup where your car in theory can make the front row, but without experience how are you supposed to feel / find out, that grip on your front axle is just too low, no matter what you are trying, and that you must a) find a short way around this and b) work on this field 1st in development, so you can improve for the next race.

If I had to give advice, I could only do this for enthusiasts who are willing to put well over 100 hours into this game: Do not bother with online setups, setup guides, or whatever. Every hardware setup (wheels, pedals) and every setting to those are too different, and so are people driving them. You got to find your own way:

Go with a simple track at first, like Austria, stick to one tyre type (!), try the given fixed setups and see which one feels the most convenient, most "safe" to drive and stay on track - not necessarily the fastest right out of the box, because chances are you cant drive at all and you need a setup which you can rely / lean on to improve your driving skills. Set a GP mode where you have full free practice. Go 4-5 laps, try to feel and understand what the car does, change a single setting (not just by one click, by a few to understand the effect), go out again. Rinse and repeat. Do this 100x and you will start to get an understanding what the settings really do. There is no other way if you really want to get behind things, and with a new game and / or handling model release from time to time, this will be immensly helpful for you in the long run.

I have not bothered to make youtube videos about the game in quite a while, since F1 2021 did not deliver what I expected, but it may be worth doing a video about setup work. You would have to talk an awful lot though, since if you guys are not feeling what the driver feels, it wont be easy to follow his trial and error changes and why he is doing them, or why he thinks they are a step forward or not. Also, since I am not a good enough driver to teach others, I would / should rather not 😄 

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3 minutes ago, Schneehase said:

From F1 2020 to F1 2021 I have the impression that e.g. you cant really feel / hear the floor scratching the tarmac when you set the car too low, this was way easier to notice in the older game.

Regarding this, I was going through the physics files for both F1 2020 and F1 2021 this morning and I found that even the F2 cars in F1 2020 had 50% more downforce than the Mercedes in F1 2021. It's through the (quite large) lack of downforce that the floor isn't scratching in F1 2021, I did a brief experiment last week and added some extra downforce, sure enough the floor scratched a lot more.

Going to be working on a mod later today to give the F1 2021 cars (both F1 and F2) 2020's downforce values, and perhaps tyre grip as well, and see what happens. Was playing 2020 earlier and it's so nice and easy to drive, which put me in mind of the comparisons with the iRacing Mercedes. I have no idea why they took so much downforce off this year. For instance, the Aqua Minerale section at Imola, in real life the cars fly through the right-hander before going back up the hill. In the game, you have to slow to a crawl and barely touch the throttle for fear off spinning out through a complete lack of grip, it's like being on ice.

Remember when the drivers checked out F1 2020 and said "yeah, that's a lot better than 2019" (even 2019 has more downforce and grip than 2021, which is crazy), and also remember Lando during the 2021 preview said he couldn't even drive properly in the wet, lack of traction or something, I can't remember. This is probably why.

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2 hours ago, s00zster said:

remember Lando during the 2021 preview said he couldn't even drive properly in the wet

I recall a video of his drive in Azerbaidschan where Lando could simply not keep the car on the track, it was rather embarassing and he yelled like crazy. I have no clue if any of the devs every looked at the files like you are doing now. If there is anything severly bugged in there, I am up for a laugh (with all the ppl whining about agressive curbs and AI driving circles around them in the wet).

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5 minutes ago, Schneehase said:

I recall a video of his drive in Azerbaidschan where Lando could simply not keep the car on the track, it was rather embarassing and he yelled like crazy. I have no clue if any of the devs every looked at the files like you are doing now. If there is anything severly bugged in there, I am up for a laugh (with all the ppl whining about agressive curbs and AI driving circles around them in the wet).

That's the one. It was wet and he kept locking up and going into the wall. Something I found with my test earlier in the week, just by increasing the downforce I was able to brake fully without locking up anywhere near as much in the past, I'm guessing he was using his real life braking style and it wasn't working because there just isn't anywhere near enough downforce to simulate a real F1 car.

Once I'm done, I'll put it up on Racedepartment, no idea how long it'll take, hopefully only a few days.

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12 minutes ago, Schneehase said:

I recall a video of his drive in Azerbaidschan where Lando could simply not keep the car on the track, it was rather embarassing and he yelled like crazy. I have no clue if any of the devs every looked at the files like you are doing now. If there is anything severly bugged in there, I am up for a laugh (with all the ppl whining about agressive curbs and AI driving circles around them in the wet).

Always been indifferent about kerbs...  but I’m fortunate to have plenty off time relearn every corner in every track.

i also believe the racing line guide doesn’t help newbies. Mainly young teen non drivers.  Who May have heard the word apex but have no idea off  where it’s located or it’s importance.

As for rain.  Game keeps raining race after race.  And always last few laps. I assume it’s script as i  always get confronted with.  risk crashing by staying out on slicks Like the ai do.  Or take the safe option and switch to inters at the cost off losing a number off places and thereby good points...  after spending a couple off hours perfecting a setup and driving a flawless race it really aggravates me. But for some reason I’ve always been really good in the rain. Maybe if forces me to focus more.  So I just stay out although I’ll admit flashbacks do come in handy on occasion.  But the game uses cheats to help the ai then I’ll use flashbacks to counter. 

 

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21 minutes ago, s00zster said:

That's the one. It was wet and he kept locking up and going into the wall. Something I found with my test earlier in the week, just by increasing the downforce I was able to brake fully without locking up anywhere near as much in the past, I'm guessing he was using his real life braking style and it wasn't working because there just isn't anywhere near enough downforce to simulate a real F1 car.

Once I'm done, I'll put it up on Racedepartment, no idea how long it'll take, hopefully only a few days.

But it was a funny video.  Huge fan off lando.

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2 minutes ago, ScaredDuck said:

But it was a funny video.  Huge fan off lando.

Sorry to derail your thread, by the way. Going back on-topic, I like the system with MotoGP and Project Cars 2 where you could tell your engineer what the issue was in simple terms and the game would adjust the car accordingly, pretty much like real life. You had multiple options to describe your problem and the engineer would say "Ok, I'm going to soften the springs, adjust the brake balance and add some rear wing" or whatever. So you could learn what settings helped what issue and you still had the ability to override it all and do it yourself in an advanced menu.

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12 minutes ago, s00zster said:

Sorry to derail your thread, by the way. Going back on-topic, I like the system with MotoGP and Project Cars 2 where you could tell your engineer what the issue was in simple terms and the game would adjust the car accordingly, pretty much like real life. You had multiple options to describe your problem and the engineer would say "Ok, I'm going to soften the springs, adjust the brake balance and add some rear wing" or whatever. So you could learn what settings helped what issue and you still had the ability to override it all and do it yourself in an advanced menu.

Dude don’t worry about going off topic:.  I do it to most threads I post in.  We are conversing and conversations generally do go off topic 

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It really irks me that I can not access the telemetry.

 

I would go and play with another game to try and work out a setting but that game does not have the same tracks.

 

My son runs laps at a single track and the adjusts to the track he is on with his driving. I prefer to work out a setup for the particular track but can not do so if I can not see the telemetry so I can see what that particular part of the car is doing at any given point on the track.

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3 hours ago, TvRacinFan said:

It really irks me that I can not access the telemetry.

 

I would go and play with another game to try and work out a setting but that game does not have the same tracks.

 

My son runs laps at a single track and the adjusts to the track he is on with his driving. I prefer to work out a setup for the particular track but can not do so if I can not see the telemetry so I can see what that particular part of the car is doing at any given point on the track.

I get what your saying personally i don’t worry about telemetry.   How the car feels is my main concern. Also I’ve raced Most off the tracks in games for decades so I have a general understanding off what type off setup my car requires.  Be it high, low downforce.  Or more or less mechanical grip etc.  But every new game had different setup values:  be it downforce or drag effect,  tyre wear etc plus they change the effects off how conditions effect handling and performance and not to mention every track due to track surface and kerbs is different.  Perfect example is every setup for this years tracks is completely different to setups I used last year:  

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20 hours ago, s00zster said:

That's the one. It was wet and he kept locking up and going into the wall. Something I found with my test earlier in the week, just by increasing the downforce I was able to brake fully without locking up anywhere near as much in the past, I'm guessing he was using his real life braking style and it wasn't working because there just isn't anywhere near enough downforce to simulate a real F1 car.

Once I'm done, I'll put it up on Racedepartment, no idea how long it'll take, hopefully only a few days.

Just to follow up, I've uploaded the mod here: https://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/realistic-downforce-grip-mod.47826/

I called it "Realistic", perhaps I should've called it "improved"? Anyway, there it is if anyone's interested.

Edit: I put it in here as I'd previously mentioned it, I'm not sure what the rules are on having a thread specifically promoting a mod. I'm still not sure if modding is frowned upon here or not.

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1 hour ago, s00zster said:

Just to follow up, I've uploaded the mod here: https://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/realistic-downforce-grip-mod.47826/

I called it "Realistic", perhaps I should've called it "improved"? Anyway, there it is if anyone's interested.

Edit: I put it in here as I'd previously mentioned it, I'm not sure what the rules are on having a thread specifically promoting a mod. I'm still not sure if modding is frowned upon here or not.

Thanks for this. As CM havent corrected the a.i in high speed corners, i’m happy to give this a try.

do you know how this will effect existing myteam modes? In terms of upgrades I’ve already completed?

maybe its best to start a new save?

cheers

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16 minutes ago, Jobling1983 said:

Thanks for this. As CM havent corrected the a.i in high speed corners, i’m happy to give this a try.

do you know how this will effect existing myteam modes? In terms of upgrades I’ve already completed?

maybe its best to start a new save?

cheers

I haven't really considered that to be honest with you. The affect of the mod is fine with an existing save, as for upgrades - should be ok? Perhaps see how an existing save that already has upgrades added is affected by it? I haven't got a MyTeam career myself, I would have thought that any upgrades would just add to how the base car is already affected by the mod. I'll have a look at a MyTeam career later. 👍

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1 hour ago, s00zster said:

I haven't really considered that to be honest with you. The affect of the mod is fine with an existing save, as for upgrades - should be ok? Perhaps see how an existing save that already has upgrades added is affected by it? I haven't got a MyTeam career myself, I would have thought that any upgrades would just add to how the base car is already affected by the mod. I'll have a look at a MyTeam career later. 👍

As a maxed my team car turns in a rabid monster.  Just by trial an error.  And as it’s a pig to slow down. From the little knowledge I know and understand about ICE.  It felt to me engine had excessive off throttle engine speed.  Not sure off the correct term. But it’s the opposite off engine braking.

So I think it’s either a specific  r&d power upgrade that has a coding error or devs have set maximum engine output values to high

Have maxed aero and chassis shouldn’t cause issues.  

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1 hour ago, ScaredDuck said:

As a maxed my team car turns in a rabid monster.  Just by trial an error.  And as it’s a pig to slow down. From the little knowledge I know and understand about ICE.  It felt to me engine had excessive off throttle engine speed.  Not sure off the correct term. But it’s the opposite off engine braking.

So I think it’s either a specific  r&d power upgrade that has a coding error or devs have set maximum engine output values to high

Have maxed aero and chassis shouldn’t cause issues.  

If it's a pig to slow down, this might help a bit as braking has improved for me with the increased grip & downforce.

As for the ICE R&D upgrade, I haven't got a clue. I know where the values are in the files but I'm yet to figure what they related to.

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