real life 2020 FIA World Rally Championship

[F2CMaDMaXX 403]

WRC2 Pro?                                               

[sqdstr 87]

F2CMaDMaXX said:

WRC2 Pro?                                               

The FIA is splitting WRC2 into 2 categories.
Pro will be only for manufacturer backed cars with professional drivers just like the normal WRC class.
The regular WRC2 will be just for privateers.
By doing this the FIA hopes to attract more privateer cars who they think that couldn't be bothered because of the factory entered cars.

[Dytut 60]

sqdstr said:

F2CMaDMaXX said:

WRC2 Pro?                                               

The FIA is splitting WRC2 into 2 categories.
Pro will be only for manufacturer backed cars with professional drivers just like the normal WRC class.
The regular WRC2 will be just for privateers.
By doing this the FIA hopes to attract more privateer cars who they think that couldn't be bothered because of the factory entered cars.

We'll see if it flies. I feel like they should've decreased the number of counted rounds for privateer WRC2 at the same time. Maybe just 4 best round counted. Just to keep the cost down.

[gfRally 337]

That kind of makes the privateer category of WRC2 third tier then?

[RodgerDavies 804]

gfRally said:

That kind of makes the privateer category of WRC2 third tier then?

Yeah, but replaces the WRC3 which disappears.

I think the theory for drivers is 

WRC Junior gets a prize fund to get into WRC2
WRC2 gives a chance to prove speed to WRC2 Pro teams
WRC2 Pro gives a chance to prove speed to WRC teams

It means teams like PrintSport have a teams title to aim for that won't just be dominated by Skoda's works team too. Makes a lot of sense to me, especially if they can get Citroen, VW, Ford and/or Hyundai to commit to the Pro category.

[RallyDriven 284]

I’m a little unsure about the whole wrc2pro. The whole point of R5’s is that say Skoda are winning, you can got out as a privateer and buy the exact same car as them and compete against them. In theory privateers and manufacturers should be on an equal playing field. The only difference is budget, which gets you mechanics, race engineers and testing time. Why don’t they reduce the amount of testing hours and mechanics allowed per team?

[RodgerDavies 804]

RallyDriven said:

I’m a little unsure about the whole wrc2pro. The whole point of R5’s is that say Skoda are winning, you can got out as a privateer and buy the exact same car as them and compete against them. In theory privateers and manufacturers should be on an equal playing field. The only difference is budget, which gets you mechanics, race engineers and testing time. Why don’t they reduce the amount of testing hours and mechanics allowed per team?

But that doesn't change their ability to do that. Skoda will pick the guys with the most experience and it will be even harder to gain experience. The last few rounds have been great in WRC2, several semi-works Fords, Citroens and Hyundais and the VWs in Spain. I don't see any downside to having a trophy within that class for the top privateers.

Admittedly, if the 'ams' are excluded from the 'pro' point scoring, that would be bad (scores should be combined), but at the moment it's just allowing them to compete over something more than third overall.

Similar to the split in 'pro' and 'am' that sports car racing has in many series, even though they compete in an equal footing in the same GT3 cars often.

[RallyDriven 284]

RodgerDavies said:

RallyDriven said:

I’m a little unsure about the whole wrc2pro. The whole point of R5’s is that say Skoda are winning, you can got out as a privateer and buy the exact same car as them and compete against them. In theory privateers and manufacturers should be on an equal playing field. The only difference is budget, which gets you mechanics, race engineers and testing time. Why don’t they reduce the amount of testing hours and mechanics allowed per team?

But that doesn't change their ability to do that. Skoda will pick the guys with the most experience and it will be even harder to gain experience. The last few rounds have been great in WRC2, several semi-works Fords, Citroens and Hyundais and the VWs in Spain. I don't see any downside to having a trophy within that class for the top privateers.

Admittedly, if the 'ams' are excluded from the 'pro' point scoring, that would be bad (scores should be combined), but at the moment it's just allowing them to compete over something more than third overall.

Similar to the split in 'pro' and 'am' that sports car racing has in many series, even though they compete in an equal footing in the same GT3 cars often.

Yeah it would be good to have proper manufacturer teams doing a full season in wrc 2, but when you have only a few amateurs doing a full season it seems strange to spilt them up. Especially when they’re driving identical machinery

[RodgerDavies 804]

RallyDriven said:

RodgerDavies said:

RallyDriven said:

I’m a little unsure about the whole wrc2pro. The whole point of R5’s is that say Skoda are winning, you can got out as a privateer and buy the exact same car as them and compete against them. In theory privateers and manufacturers should be on an equal playing field. The only difference is budget, which gets you mechanics, race engineers and testing time. Why don’t they reduce the amount of testing hours and mechanics allowed per team?

But that doesn't change their ability to do that. Skoda will pick the guys with the most experience and it will be even harder to gain experience. The last few rounds have been great in WRC2, several semi-works Fords, Citroens and Hyundais and the VWs in Spain. I don't see any downside to having a trophy within that class for the top privateers.

Admittedly, if the 'ams' are excluded from the 'pro' point scoring, that would be bad (scores should be combined), but at the moment it's just allowing them to compete over something more than third overall.

Similar to the split in 'pro' and 'am' that sports car racing has in many series, even though they compete in an equal footing in the same GT3 cars often.

Yeah it would be good to have proper manufacturer teams doing a full season in wrc 2, but when you have only a few amateurs doing a full season it seems strange to spilt them up. Especially when they’re driving identical machinery

Aye, you've made me worried now that they won't just spilt them 'downwards' and combine them 'upwards'. It annoys me enough that there are WRC2 R5s and then other R5s running non-priority.

See the main WRC championship for how it should work IMO. If Kopecky finishes 7th overall on a round, he scores a win in WRC2 but also gets 2 points in WRC. If he beats an RC1 car he gets overall points and the WRC doesn't.

[RallyDriven 284]

RodgerDavies said:

RallyDriven said:

RodgerDavies said:

RallyDriven said:

I’m a little unsure about the whole wrc2pro. The whole point of R5’s is that say Skoda are winning, you can got out as a privateer and buy the exact same car as them and compete against them. In theory privateers and manufacturers should be on an equal playing field. The only difference is budget, which gets you mechanics, race engineers and testing time. Why don’t they reduce the amount of testing hours and mechanics allowed per team?

But that doesn't change their ability to do that. Skoda will pick the guys with the most experience and it will be even harder to gain experience. The last few rounds have been great in WRC2, several semi-works Fords, Citroens and Hyundais and the VWs in Spain. I don't see any downside to having a trophy within that class for the top privateers.

Admittedly, if the 'ams' are excluded from the 'pro' point scoring, that would be bad (scores should be combined), but at the moment it's just allowing them to compete over something more than third overall.

Similar to the split in 'pro' and 'am' that sports car racing has in many series, even though they compete in an equal footing in the same GT3 cars often.

Yeah it would be good to have proper manufacturer teams doing a full season in wrc 2, but when you have only a few amateurs doing a full season it seems strange to spilt them up. Especially when they’re driving identical machinery

Aye, you've made me worried now that they won't just spilt them 'downwards' and combine them 'upwards'. It annoys me enough that there are WRC2 R5s and then other R5s running non-priority.

See the main WRC championship for how it should work IMO. If Kopecky finishes 7th overall on a round, he scores a win in WRC2 but also gets 2 points in WRC. If he beats an RC1 car he gets overall points and the WRC doesn't.

Not really how rallying works though. You are registered to that class and that’s what you score points in. At a national level I’ve beaten cars in quicker classes than mine but it doesn’t mean I take their points, I’m not competing against them

[RodgerDavies 804]

RallyDriven said:

RodgerDavies said:

RallyDriven said:

RodgerDavies said:

RallyDriven said:

I’m a little unsure about the whole wrc2pro. The whole point of R5’s is that say Skoda are winning, you can got out as a privateer and buy the exact same car as them and compete against them. In theory privateers and manufacturers should be on an equal playing field. The only difference is budget, which gets you mechanics, race engineers and testing time. Why don’t they reduce the amount of testing hours and mechanics allowed per team?

But that doesn't change their ability to do that. Skoda will pick the guys with the most experience and it will be even harder to gain experience. The last few rounds have been great in WRC2, several semi-works Fords, Citroens and Hyundais and the VWs in Spain. I don't see any downside to having a trophy within that class for the top privateers.

Admittedly, if the 'ams' are excluded from the 'pro' point scoring, that would be bad (scores should be combined), but at the moment it's just allowing them to compete over something more than third overall.

Similar to the split in 'pro' and 'am' that sports car racing has in many series, even though they compete in an equal footing in the same GT3 cars often.

Yeah it would be good to have proper manufacturer teams doing a full season in wrc 2, but when you have only a few amateurs doing a full season it seems strange to spilt them up. Especially when they’re driving identical machinery

Aye, you've made me worried now that they won't just spilt them 'downwards' and combine them 'upwards'. It annoys me enough that there are WRC2 R5s and then other R5s running non-priority.

See the main WRC championship for how it should work IMO. If Kopecky finishes 7th overall on a round, he scores a win in WRC2 but also gets 2 points in WRC. If he beats an RC1 car he gets overall points and the WRC doesn't.

Not really how rallying works though. You are registered to that class and that’s what you score points in. At a national level I’ve beaten cars in quicker classes than mine but it doesn’t mean I take their points, I’m not competing against them

It does work that way in some though; 

If a WRC2 crew finishes ahead of a WRC car, it takes the WRC points

If an ERC2 crew finishes ahead of an ERC one it takes the points.

[Fedemaisonnave 48]

WRC doesnt have a RC1 class championship, the drivers championship, drivers with any car can score points, even if they are not registered in WRC2 class. However WRC2 class yes, only RC2 class cars and registered for WRC2 class can score, you cant score a point in WRC2 class with a R2 car even if you beat every WRC2 car. It depends on the scoring regulation, The drivers WRC scoring bases on the overall ranking. A lot of national, continental championships also has this scoring method for the drivers championship, and then per class championships

[RodgerDavies 804]

Fedemaisonnave said:

WRC doesnt have a RC1 class championship, the drivers championship, drivers with any car can score points, even if they are not registered in WRC2 class. However WRC2 class yes, only RC2 class cars and registered for WRC2 class can score, you cant score a point in WRC2 class with a R2 car even if you beat every WRC2 car. It depends on the scoring regulation, The drivers WRC scoring bases on the overall ranking. A lot of national, continental championships also has this scoring method for the drivers championship, and then per class championships

My point being, they can do it how they like. And I hope WRC2 cars are all part of WRC2 Pro (but not vice versa obviously). I don't expect this, but I do hope for it.

[Dytut 60]

With Australia getting closer, what do you think about the title fight? 
Disregarding power stage points, Neuville wins if he wins the rally by 4 points. If Neu-Ogi get 2nd-3rd or 3rd-4th they're even on points. If Neuville ends up 4th or lower he needs to beat Ogier by two places to have a points advantage.
And I seriously doubt that Ogier will end up more than one place behind Neuville. So it's quite likely that power stage points will decide the drivers title. 
As usual, Tänak is most likely to win. But then I think it will be Ogier and Neuville who will fight it out for the 2nd/3rd place. Really looking forward to this one :-D

[sqdstr 87]

Dytut said:

With Australia getting closer, what do you think about the title fight? 
Disregarding power stage points, Neuville wins if he wins the rally by 4 points. If Neu-Ogi get 2nd-3rd or 3rd-4th they're even on points. If Neuville ends up 4th or lower he needs to beat Ogier by two places to have a points advantage.
And I seriously doubt that Ogier will end up more than one place behind Neuville. So it's quite likely that power stage points will decide the drivers title. 
As usual, Tänak is most likely to win. But then I think it will be Ogier and Neuville who will fight it out for the 2nd/3rd place. Really looking forward to this one :-D

Neuville won last year starting from 2nd position, but on the other hand Ogier was already champion then so he most probably didn't put that much effort into it.
Weather will also be very important I think. I saw youtube videos from Hyundai testing in Australia on flooded & very muddy roads, but at the moment it looks much drier.

[sqdstr 87]

I also came across some rumours that the organisers of the Monte Carlo rally are talking about the return of another manufacturer for the 2019 WRC.

[Dytut 60]

sqdstr said:

I also came across some rumours that the organisers of the Monte Carlo rally are talking about the return of another manufacturer for the 2019 WRC.

Yeah there's been a few floating around, but do we have anything new about it? If it's a new WRC entry I'd be kind of surprised, but it might be an announcement of a new marque that might go for an entry in late 2019 and do a full season in 2020. Mitsubishi? Seat? Subaru? 
Or it's an R5, which is more likely since that's not quite the same level of commitment. 

[RodgerDavies 804]

sqdstr said:

I also came across some rumours that the organisers of the Monte Carlo rally are talking about the return of another manufacturer for the 2019 WRC.

It's in their Rally Guide 1 doc, but I think it's just mistaken TBH. If anyone, may be a new Cayman RGT. Certainly won't be a new top class entry at Monte Carlo. http://acm.mc/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/RAMC-2019-Rally-Guide-1-GB.pdf

Would seem very unlikely to see a manufacturer enter in 2020 too, '21 is supposed to have new rules and there are no rumours of any of the current crop of drivers being approached by a new employer. May have been relating to the now-discredited Skoda rumours.

[carpa 260]

RodgerDavies said:

sqdstr said:

I also came across some rumours that the organisers of the Monte Carlo rally are talking about the return of another manufacturer for the 2019 WRC.

It's in their Rally Guide 1 doc, but I think it's just mistaken TBH. If anyone, may be a new Cayman RGT. Certainly won't be a new top class entry at Monte Carlo. http://acm.mc/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/RAMC-2019-Rally-Guide-1-GB.pdf

Would seem very unlikely to see a manufacturer enter in 2020 too, '21 is supposed to have new rules and there are no rumours of any of the current crop of drivers being approached by a new employer. May have been relating to the now-discredited Skoda rumours.

Well, I highly doubt any manufacturer has managed to keep a new rally program a secret, either WRC or R5, up until the point the car is tested enough to take part in a full-lenght international event, and as important as the Montecarlo... 

[Fedemaisonnave 48]

Could be Proton with the r5, or Oreca as R4 manufacturer

[RodgerDavies 804]

Fedemaisonnave said:

Could be Proton with the r5, or Oreca as R4 manufacturer

Actually, that's a good point, it probably does refer to Proton; that car is undergoing homologation at the moment and they're planning to take it to MC.

[Dytut 60]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/140050/hyundai-gives-neuville-19-engine-for-title-bid

Gaaaaaaah! Please don't let it be decided by an engine failure. For either of them.

[juu1ius 5]

Dytut said:

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/140050/hyundai-gives-neuville-19-engine-for-title-bid

Gaaaaaaah! Please don't let it be decided by an engine failure. For either of them.

It's a suprise isn't it, couple of weeks ago I was  trying to figure out, with my friends, what was Hyundais joker for this year. Wasn't expecting joker for last rally. I doubt there will be engine issues- all the stress test and so on and temps wound't be that high. Anyways, I have a feeling that Ogier will have his 6th title and Toyota theirs, but I even moved one of my classes to later time, so I could watch last stage - it starts friking 4:18 AM for me.

[dwkGravey 0]

Heh, all the days run from noon to night for me, couldn't be more perfect. Just watching stages 1 and 2 on my lunch break. Poor Skippy.

[dwkGravey 0]

Mikkelsen is out. It looks like he got distracted by a tractor driving on the stage. And you thought the helicopter in Dirt 4 was annoying.