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Team meeting 18/11/2015 - Patch Update & More!


jennyannem

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FRACTURED said:
This is off of Steam, and their Early Access. How is this definition different to how F1 2015 has been released (Other than not always listening to the community)?

Steam said:
"What is Early Access?
Get immediate access to games that are being developed with the community's involvement. These are games that evolve as you play them, as you give feedback, and as the developers update and add content.
We like to think of games and game development as services that grow and evolve with the involvement of customers and the community. There have been a number of prominent titles that have embraced this model of development recently and found a lot of value in the process. We like to support and encourage developers who want to ship early, involve customers, and build lasting relationships that help everyone make better games.
This is the way games should be made."

I think you've made your point, I do understand your frustration as I'm an xbox user too. I'm encouraged to see CM are trying their best to rectify things that weren't right, they are also looking into how they can make f1 2016 a more community involved process. I feel they have listened and are responding. Yes it's frustrating but I'm not sure continually pointing out the error of their ways is productive. You're of course entitled to your opinion as am I.  
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FRACTURED other than everything that was in the scope of the game was finished and it passed a submission with the relevant first parties on console nothing. Of course we'll listen to feedback and try to improve what we can. Since the advent of patches people have been working to that sort of feedback and improve model. Steam early access is certainly a good idea as has been proved on DiRT but it's not one size fits all solution to games development. Have any annual licensed sports titles used it?

peanutt2000 the latest information is in the first post in this very thread. There is no update to that yet.
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Lozzy said:
I don't accept that fixing bugs is a bad thing to be held against us. Yes there have been more issues that we would have liked but that's what happens when many thousands of man days go in to making something, people make mistakes and they have to be identified and fixed. That's true of anything non trivial not just computer games.

I do accept that the whole season updates thing has been a disaster. After that was thought up things changed and our release slipped. That meant it wasn't possible to achieve what was originally envisaged. The updates are coming now (better late than never) but no that has been something we've failed to deliver as we had hoped and we're sorry. We'll learn from that for the future.

I also accept from a l players point of view having to add in things like the server browser looks like we're just adding things that should have been there for release. The reality is that it was never in the original design because hoppers were considered the future. On paper doing the search in the background while the player does something else that's more fun than looking at a list or sitting in a lobby is good but it's not worked out like that on a lot of games. I think it's fair to say players aren't keen and a lot of developers are having to deal with the negativity surrounding them. I think we made mistakes by having too many choices and making the window to join a session too small so people generally didn't find a game or if they did only found a few people to play with. Fundamentally I think people like to be in control and like being able to look at a list and make a choice.

I'm glad you give a damn and we are always happy to receive ideas and constructive criticism from all our players.


A lot of this is information we never had you know? Good post, thank you. And I mean that.

The point about identifying and fixing bugs, my issue with that is our expectation (or as close as can be) is that come release date we are sold a finished game, and that's why we are paying a higher amount than if we just waited a few months simply to have it 'first'. Yes everyone understands that there may be some minor fixes needed, and I'm sure many of us have been excited to get home with a game only to have huge day one updates! "Arrrggghhh - another half hour before I can play" :) But we hear about so much testing that we expect the bugs to be found.
With this particular game its 140 something days since release, and likely another 14-21 days to go until we see the next patch for Xbox. Thats a long
time waiting and watching the price of the game steadily drop whilst not playing it.
Season updates was an amazing idea. I was looking forward to it as a way of hopefully driving me to finish an offline career...I think I did a few seasons offline on '10 before boredom set in. F1 was one of the first games that got me online, along with Race Pro so it kinda matters to me in an over the top way. F1 in particular means a lot as its how I met maybe 75% of my friends list! And that original league folded a few weeks after this game was released as so many were angry. 


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@jennyannem In regards to getting us more involved for F1 2016, has an Early Access program been talked about? Would the big heads in the F1 media department allow that? 

DiRT Rally has been hugely successful on it's Early Access program, and it's a shining example to any development team when thinking about their next release.
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What Lozzy appears to fail to grasp is that the game is not only unfinished due to the remaining bugs (and listing them will take some time) but at no stretch of the imagination does it include some of the basic things a F1 game requires (safety car to name but one).  

I would love to see the original design brief and then compare that brief to the minimal feature,  bug ridden mess sold to us........unfinished would be clearly understood then! 



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*Opens thread*
- Butt hurt post
- Butt hurt post
- Butt hurt post
*Loses will to live*

Can we all just chill? As soon as an announcement is made; a few positive replies are posted, then it descends into lists of things to be fixed or wanting to know if obscure bug has been fixed or whether feature X will be added then how/why CM are incompetent. Chill the fuck out, go do something else for a bit. If the game is "unplayable" for you, go do something else. Literally like, anything else. Take a look at yourself in the mirror; look at how pissed off you are. Is that who you want to be all the time?


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@jennyannem In regards to getting us more involved for F1 2016, has an Early Access program been talked about? Would the big heads in the F1 media department allow that? 

DiRT Rally has been hugely successful on it's Early Access program, and it's a shining example to any development team when thinking about their next release.
We had a meeting about what we're going to do today. We'll be revealing some little bits very soon/in the coming days, I promise!
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Lozzy said:
My definition of unfinished differs to yours...
It seems game companies' definition of "finished" simply means: "it's now available for retail purchase."

This customer's definition of "finished" means: ready to play as advertised/represented without significant game-impacting defects.

DauntingConch said:
...I'm not sure continually pointing out the error of their ways is productive...
I am sure that continually accepting & remaining silent (or worse: sycophantic) about the error of their ways is not conducive to getting quality games.

Lozzy said:
I don't accept that fixing bugs is a bad thing to be held against us...
I don't accept that it's a good thing to release another game at full retail price with a considerable list of game-impacting issues to be fixed weeks/months post-launch (if ever).

Edit Lozzy: Moved three replies in to one because I'm a neat freak.



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Operator1 said:

Lozzy said:
I don't accept that fixing bugs is a bad thing to be held against us...

I don't accept that it's a good thing to release another game at full retail price with a considerable list of game-impacting issues to be fixed weeks/months post-launch (if ever).


I don't think anybody does but it's codemasters first game on a new console with a new engine. We all were expecting better because of a hardware change and yes I'm angry because they screwed it up. 

If you look at all the other developers who have struggled with bugs and development issues with these new consoles on release it's not exactly been easy for any of them, and they have more resources than codemasters. In the end I expected better but no amount of complaining is going to change anything now.

All we can do is now is grow a pair, deal with it and stop the whinging and I know it's hard for some people here but we can be useful point out the bugs for them to patch and hope for a better game in the future.

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Chromatic said:
Operator1 said:

Lozzy said:
I don't accept that fixing bugs is a bad thing to be held against us...

I don't accept that it's a good thing to release another game at full retail price with a considerable list of game-impacting issues to be fixed weeks/months post-launch (if ever).


I don't think anybody does but it's codemasters first game on a new console with a new engine. We all were expecting better because of a hardware change and yes I'm angry because they screwed it up. 

If you look at all the other developers who have struggled with bugs and development issues with these new consoles on release it's not exactly been easy for any of them, and they have more resources than codemasters. In the end I expected better but no amount of complaining is going to change anything now.

All we can do is now is grow a pair, deal with it and stop the whinging and I know it's hard for some people here but we can be useful point out the bugs for them to patch and hope for a better game in the future.


I don't view quiet acceptance of faulty goods as "growing a pair" ...that would seem quite the opposite, actually.


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Operator1 said:

Chromatic said:
Operator1 said:

Lozzy said:
I don't accept that fixing bugs is a bad thing to be held against us...

I don't accept that it's a good thing to release another game at full retail price with a considerable list of game-impacting issues to be fixed weeks/months post-launch (if ever).


I don't think anybody does but it's codemasters first game on a new console with a new engine. We all were expecting better because of a hardware change and yes I'm angry because they screwed it up. 

If you look at all the other developers who have struggled with bugs and development issues with these new consoles on release it's not exactly been easy for any of them, and they have more resources than codemasters. In the end I expected better but no amount of complaining is going to change anything now.

All we can do is now is grow a pair, deal with it and stop the whinging and I know it's hard for some people here but we can be useful point out the bugs for them to patch and hope for a better game in the future.


I don't view silent acceptance of faulty goods as "growing a pair" - quite the opposite.


I never mentioned silent acceptance or the fact you can't but your point across which your entitled do to. Constant moaning and complaining solves nothing. Growing a pair and dealing with is the best thing we can do because the game is crap until they patch it or bring out a better version we can't do anything about it. My comment isn't aimed at you specifically mainly the moaners and bellyachers.  

It's up to codemasters to sort it out. It's faulty and their fixing it nothing more we can do apart from pointing out the bugs hopefully to be patched.   

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Look I've been on the forums a lot longer to know that if you expect an apology from codemasters you'll be waiting a long time. You might get one eventually since codies did say sorry for something related to a dirt rally update. All I mentioned was crying and moaning like a child solves nothing I tried myself at one stage back on the old forums on F1 2011 and realised that it solved nothing and codemasters never apologised. Probably because the FIA constrain them in some way or they don't want to say sorry to keep the license I don't know 

Constant complaining solves absolutely zero. Take it from somebody who knows take what I've said whatever way you like.

I'm going for a lie down. 

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Chromatic said:

Look I've been on the forums a lot longer to know that if you expect an apology from codemasters you'll be waiting a long time. You might get one eventually since codies did say sorry for something related to a dirt rally update. All I mentioned was crying and moaning like a child solves nothing I tried myself at one stage back on the old forums on F1 2011 and realised that it solved nothing and codemasters never apologised. Probably because the FIA constrain them in some way or they don't want to say sorry to keep the license I don't know 

Constant complaining solves absolutely zero. Take it from somebody who knows take what I've said whatever way you like.

I'm going for a lie down. 


I don't want apologies. I want better quality games at release & better post-launch support.

...If that's not what you want, you are more than welcome to quit "moaning & whinging."


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Chromatic said:

I'm trying to be civil. I'm getting a headache listening to whingers no matter how many times you complain. Have fun with the whinging prick 


Civil? All I've seen here is you trying to silence people because you think it's all just "crying, moaning, & whinging that solves absolutely zero." I don't see the civility in that.


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HelmetSquad I'm glad someone else noticed and has said something. Frankly I think some people should be ashamed of the way they think they can communicate with other people because it's the internet. Having issues with a game is fine, but attacking someone for giving you news or having an opinion isn't.
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All I seen from you is bellyaching a faulty game I'm not defending it far from it. Why don't you try play something else that's not faulty it might help you with your tension. As for being civil I was pointing out that their is a constant stream of moaners on these forums about a faulty game and the fact your entitled to your opinion even though I disagree with it  
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Lozzy said:
HelmetSquad I'm glad someone else noticed and has said something. Frankly I think some people should be ashamed of the way they think they can communicate with other people because it's the internet. Having issues with a game is fine, but attacking someone for giving you news or having an opinion isn't.
Going slightly off topic, any chance of the ps4 patch notes please?
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Chromatic said:
All I seen from you is bellyaching a faulty game I'm not defending it far from it. Why don't you try play something else that's not faulty it might help you with your tension. As for being civil I was pointing out that their is a constant stream of moaners on these forums about a faulty game and the fact your entitled to your opinion even though I disagree with it  

Nobody's forcing you to read it & bully people for it.


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