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Codemasters WRC License Looks Set to be a Tragedy for Rally Gamers


Jake Cushing
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I've finally got round to playing WRC 10. It's great, a massive improvement on WRC 8, which was the last one I tried. On the Series X it is either 60fps or 120fps (though with some pop-in and poor post-processing). And the handling with a controller now makes perfect sense. The game has a much more detailed surface than DR2.0, something I saw the promise of even in WRC 7. It's actually incredible how far KT have come since they began with WRC 5, which was shockingly primitive.

So, we had the best of both worlds. The Kylotonn WRC series has a great offline career mode, and serious simulation handling.

Dirt Rally has its own appeal, is more free-flowing and colourful. It was doing well as a separate series to WRC, selling a lot more units.

And now... EA's purchase means KT is no longer in the WRC game, and we no longer have a separate Dirt series either.

Perhaps KT will take over the 'Dirt' role and put out their own rally simulation without a WRC license. Perhaps. But they will suffer for not having the Dirt and Codemasters name recognition. It will be a tragedy for KT to depart the serious rally space. We had it really good for a brief moment. 

Edited by Jake Cushing
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KT's WRC games are good but they got massive downsides with excessive bugs, weird physics (acceleration and braking) and very distant dev team (for suggestions and bug reporting). They had many years to perfect the game but they still got the same issues.

11 hours ago, Jake Cushing said:

And now... EA's purchase means KT is no longer in the WRC game, and we no longer have a separate Dirt series either.

The acquisition has nothing to do with it as Codies secured the license way before it.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, nPiipo said:

KT's WRC games are good but they got massive downsides with excessive bugs, weird physics (acceleration and braking) 

These have been ironed out in 10

9 hours ago, nPiipo said:

The acquisition has nothing to do with it as Codies secured the license way before it.

Fair point, but sort of besides the point, if you look at the thread title. Also, if I recall correctly, Codies looked set to release Dirt 3.0 as well as their WRC title, until the EA takeover.

Edited by Jake Cushing
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13 hours ago, VirtuaIceMan said:

Maybe they'll pivot over to make V-Rally 5 instead? Although Test Drive Solar Crown is probably their main focus.

Good point, maybe V-Rally can become the new Dirt Rally.

They have the capacity to do it now, but is there the market case for them since they have lost the WRC license, to make a full rally sim? 

That last V-Rally was a terrible attempt at simcade.

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Even though each WRC title was better than the last one, the sound remained terrible in all WRC releases. All WRC cars from 2010 to present use the same sound, all Rally 2 cars use one sound package, basically there are like a few different sound packages shared among all the cars including the historic ones. Someone did a youtube video comparing them. This alone is a good enough reason for me to be glad that they lost the WRC license.  

Edited by Sevsterino
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Was just watching comparison videos between WRC10 and DR2.0 and DR still holds its own. In WRC10, the cars sound like household appliances and the damage wasn't very realistic. Just not what you want in a rally game. If you could completely start from scratch as often as you wanted and those aspects were better, maybe I'd give WRC10 a go. I can't go back to DR2.0 as I don't want to be constantly competing against myself all the time.

Should something new come along that is as good as, if not better, than DR2.0 then I may rally again......

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Rogerbee said:

Was just watching comparison videos between WRC10 and DR2.0 and DR still holds its own. In WRC10, the cars sound like household appliances and the damage wasn't very realistic. Just not what you want in a rally game. If you could completely start from scratch as often as you wanted and those aspects were better, maybe I'd give WRC10 a go. I can't go back to DR2.0 as I don't want to be constantly competing against myself all the time.

Should something new come along that is as good as, if not better, than DR2.0 then I may rally again......

I picked up WRC10 for $35 rather than the usual $90 and am enjoying it enormously. The car sounds aren't so bad an issue when playing, but it's the handling and detailed graphics that shine. 

 

Edited by Jake Cushing
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On 8/9/2022 at 1:56 PM, merseyxshore said:

I really hope KT stay in the rally sim game, no pun intended. Dream scenario would be them doing a full Irish Tarmac Championship game, probably the best championship in the world outside of the top flight.

They have the V-Rally brand, maybe they switch to that?

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Posted (edited)
On 8/2/2022 at 1:25 AM, VirtuaIceMan said:

Maybe they'll pivot over to make V-Rally 5 instead? 

@PJTierney A point made by @VirtuaIceMan earlier in the thread ^

I really do hope so. But it's a big *maybe*, or that it would be a sim. It just reinforces my original point. 

We were better off before WRC went to Codies. I bet DR3.0 would have been terrific. And WRC under KT had only just come of age. 

Bah. 

 

Edited by Jake Cushing
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16 hours ago, Jake Cushing said:

We were better off before WRC went to Codies

Why? I really disagree with this statement. If WRC game from Codies is as good as DR2 with new WRC cars and teams, that is a massive win. KT can still do rally games, they have V-rally. Why is that they need WRC license to make rally games? They had the chance, I think they did not use it well, a missed opportunity, now it's someone else's turn to try to make a better game. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Sevsterino said:

If WRC game from Codies is as good as DR2 with new WRC cars and teams, that is a massive win. 

How would that be a massive win? DR2.0 has the worst career mode in a racing game ever ("connecting to Racenet"), and mediocre tarmac handling. 

Wrc10 is, of course, a newer game. But the handling is I believe overall superior. And the graphics don't drench the screen in smeary bloom. 

If KT departs simulation rally, it's a loss. And we also now miss out on DR3.0

 

Edited by Jake Cushing
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Posted (edited)

Oh, and one other thing, WRC 10 provides console players with a field-of-view slider. This has been completely missing from the Dirt series for console players. KT provides separate adjustable FoV that's recorded and kept for each individual car. Along with the usual seat adjustments.

Given the disdain for the FoV option shown on this forum by that Codies employee who responded to it, I have no expectation we'll get one with their WRC game.

 

Edited by Jake Cushing
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Never really enjoyed the wrc series with KT, physics always felt washy and alot of bugs like going through a stage clean and then next stage the car had more less full damage, graphics were very poor and the stages did not look like the real wrc stages bar a few.  Interested to see what codies do with it but not having real stages ( for most of them) and proper car noises. I've still bought all the games to give them a try , wrc 10 was better but still needed alot of improvement. Still hoping they'll stay in the rally market and give there own version of a game. Not hating on kt but always felt it lacked the finished product.

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On 8/14/2022 at 8:58 AM, Jake Cushing said:

Oh, and one other thing, WRC 10 provides console players with a field-of-view slider. This has been completely missing from the Dirt series for console players. KT provides separate adjustable FoV that's recorded and kept for each individual car. Along with the usual seat adjustments.

Given the disdain for the FoV option shown on this forum by that Codies employee who responded to it, I have no expectation we'll get one with their WRC game.

 

You can have career and FOV slider in the next V-rally game too. I do not see an issue here.

For each their own. I personally play on a PC and the FOV slider in DR2 is great and I am not much interested in career mode. But what I really dislike in WRC is sound, some cars looks low res and textures are terrible (much worse than DR2, some cars, not all of them, especially the historic ones), the co-driver sound (does not sound like a co-driver but a voice actor) and the overall feel of WRC games. To me they Feel like games made by game developers who do not care much about rally (or do not know what really makes a rally game feel authentic), in contract DR2 feels like a game made by rally fans.

Also, for a game that is 2-3 years younger than DR2 and had multiple iterations, the improvements are very small and DR2 still stands chance in every aspects including graphics. They had many years and still did not bother to record at least 3 sound sets for modern WRC cars. If they kept the license, we would see more of the same for the next 2-3 years. It is time for some fresh air and a new game.   

Of course that is personal. But the aspects you mentioned that are important to you can be implemented in V-rally. Unless you worry that KT will not release another rally game because they do not have license. I do not think it is the case. 

I will give it a try and get WRC Generations. I was hoping for some good improvements over WRC10, but looking at the early preview on YT, it is more of the same in areas that require most improvement in my opinion (sounds, car graphics). Al least I am optimistic about the new (tweaked) physics.

Edited by Sevsterino
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Posted (edited)

It's not just sound. Look, even Dirt Rally 1 has better graphics in most ways than WRC 10, which has the worst post-processing out there and some heinous pop-in. Replays in WRC are especially bad, the helicopter chase looks like a children's toy game with its woeful depth of field effect. The cars look like cartoons half the time. And DR1 had those awesome hand-held replay cams which even 2.0 threw out. 

Oh, and DR1 had a better in-car view with head movements, unlike the static camera and dark interior in WRC 10

But it doesn't matter. Because, physics and handling. These are superior to 2.0 and once you go superior, you can't go back. 

 

Edited by Jake Cushing
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On 8/1/2022 at 5:55 PM, VirtuaIceMan said:

Maybe they'll pivot over to make V-Rally 5 instead? Although Test Drive Solar Crown is probably their main focus.

Although personally I'd like to see a Subaru Impreza time attack car added to an Isle of Man TT game hehe

 

On 8/2/2022 at 7:33 AM, Jake Cushing said:

Good point, maybe V-Rally can become the new Dirt Rally.

They have the capacity to do it now, but is there the market case for them since they have lost the WRC license, to make a full rally sim? 

That last V-Rally was a terrible attempt at simcade.

 

To be honest, V-Rally 3 was one of my favorite games for the PS2. That has mostly to do with the career mode. It was i think one of the first racing games that had that kinda proper and simple. Really worked for that time. Unfortunately the physics were very terrible. I think one or two years ago I tried it again on my PS2, but o man that driving is very difficult. If I look back, I wonder how I managed to get championship wins and things. It have costed my thumbs back then i guess.

But would love to see a complete remaster of V-Rally 3. It wouldnt bother me if it would have kinda arcade or simcade physics, it would already be again playable. and enjoyable.

For todays standards its pretty small game with 18 cars (8 S1600 and 10 WRC). 6 locations with 4 stages each, but short length and quite wide. Basically what I would for the remaster is DiRT Rally 2.0 locations and physics, but the cars and career mode from V-Rally 3, time-trail leaderboard and possibility to do something online with friends. Maybe could sell it as a small game. Btw, i am talking about remaster V-Rally 3, not my wish for the next DiRT.

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On 8/9/2022 at 5:00 PM, Rogerbee said:

ooh, that's nice... the release date is very soon. 👍

On 8/22/2022 at 2:08 PM, JorritVD said:

 

 

To be honest, V-Rally 3 was one of my favorite games for the PS2. That has mostly to do with the career mode. It was i think one of the first racing games that had that kinda proper and simple. Really worked for that time. Unfortunately the physics were very terrible. I think one or two years ago I tried it again on my PS2, but o man that driving is very difficult. If I look back, I wonder how I managed to get championship wins and things. It have costed my thumbs back then i guess.

But would love to see a complete remaster of V-Rally 3. It wouldnt bother me if it would have kinda arcade or simcade physics, it would already be again playable. and enjoyable.

For todays standards its pretty small game with 18 cars (8 S1600 and 10 WRC). 6 locations with 4 stages each, but short length and quite wide. Basically what I would for the remaster is DiRT Rally 2.0 locations and physics, but the cars and career mode from V-Rally 3, time-trail leaderboard and possibility to do something online with friends. Maybe could sell it as a small game. Btw, i am talking about remaster V-Rally 3, not my wish for the next DiRT.

That's a good set of suggestions, it would be good if some or all of it could actually be a reality. 😉

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  • 1 month later...

I play both WRC10 and DR2.0 and both games have good and bad things. I bought both on sale when they were old and I can say that if I had bought 2.0 at launch I would have been furious with its DLC practices, the game is totally incomplete without DLCs. The career mode is non-existent, it's terrible and you can't adjust the difficulty, there comes a point where if you're not insanely good you'll just get beaten by the AI non-stop.

On the positive side 2.0 has great graphics for PC and the upgraded versions (PS5/Series X), even today the game is very beautiful. The physics are very good and the daily challenges hold me in the game (if it weren't for them nowadays would be useless). Although I love the daily challenges, it annoys me that the tracks repeat so much, I can't stand playing Spain, Australia, New Zealand and Poland practically every day. The classic cars are really cool and the sound of the engines is fantastic.

WRC10 has a great career, but after a while it gets a bit boring. Those maintenance events and some short-term goals, such as "don't use hard tires on this rally" are just too silly. The sound of the engines is horrible, the graphics leave something to be desired for a modern game, and the game lacks of HDR. The physics is a bit strange too, in Monte Carlo some leaning against the wall gives ridiculous results. On the positive side, the game has many tracks and most of them are a lot of fun, in this respect it is much better than Dirt. Playing with a licensed game is much better and the career mode keeps you hooked, until you start to get a little sick of it due to objectives.

Ideally, a new WRC would take all the good stuff from these games, but coming from EA we know it won't happen, we can expect a lot of problems and a very high price for a game that will probably be annual. I live in a third world country and since EA took over I never bought F1 again due to the absurd price. I am a huge F1 fan and this makes me sad, sports games can't be overpriced, the next releases always look too much like the previous game.

Edited by CF86BR
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  • 5 weeks later...

Oh man, WRC Generations is based. Handling has gone much more realistic, there's serious weight and momentum to the cars now. Makes the previous game feel like a twitchy FPS. 

Handbrake is no longer a cheat-button, you have to be careful in how it's used. 

Graphics have taken a major step up too. This studio is taking real steps forward, things look bright if we have both studios making rally into the future. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

While KT's WRC games have good aspects, like interesting stages and good tarmac physics, there are also things that I could never get over. Why is the wheel animation set to 180 degrees? Why can you adjust rear differential in an FWD car and it actually affects the car's handling? Why do cars sound more like vacuums than cars? Why are there problems with multiple inputs? It just feels like DR2 has been made with more passion and attention to detail. And personally I'm very happy and excited to know that the WRC license went to Codemasters. Because all Codies have to really work on and improve from DR2 in my opinion is the dreadful tarmac physics.

As for WRC Generations, I agree with Jimmy Broadbent's opinion: 

 

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Broadbent is being a bit shallow and focusing on negatives. The game has only just been released and clearly prematurely. 

Do you recall when DR2.0 was released, and all the problems it had? 

I expect things like the throttle bug will be resolved. 

The biggest real problem in WRCG is the audio, which is woeful. It's a shame they never get that right. It might get patched to an OK level but I doubt it will be significantly better. 

Edited by Jake Cushing
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